finding career zen

Is College Necessary?

• Pete Newsome • Episode 48

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Having grown up in an era when success seemed to be determined by a college diploma, Pete Newsome and Ricky Baez sit down to discuss what career pathways are like today. As Gen-Xers, they've witnessed the seismic shifts in the job landscape, prompting a lively debate on whether a college education still holds its weight amidst emerging alternative routes.

They explore the complexities of higher education and its potential pitfalls. Pete and Ricky scrutinize if colleges are truly equipping students with the tools needed to carve out successful careers or if they're just handing over an expensive piece of paper. They stress the significance of mentorship and the empowerment of today's youth to chart their own courses—whether that's academia, military service, or entrepreneurship. Focus is placed on cultivating guidance rather than dictating choices, advocating for a personalized GPS to navigate the career roadmap.

As the conversation unfolds, they challenge listeners to question the status quo and explore the value metrics schools use to define success. Do these reflect genuine happiness and fulfillment, or are they merely a facade? They share the importance of discovering one's 'ikigai' and celebrate those who choose passion projects over pompous titles.

Pros of Attending College:

  1. Educational and Career Opportunities: College provides access to specialized knowledge and skills in various fields. It often serves as a gateway to professional careers that require specific degrees or certifications.
  2. Networking and Social Connections: College environments offer abundant opportunities to network with peers, professors, and industry professionals. These connections can be invaluable for future career prospects and personal growth. 
  3. Personal Development: College is not just about academic growth; it's also a crucial time for personal development. Students learn to become more independent, manage their time and finances, and develop a sense of responsibility.

Cons of Attending College:

  1. Financial Burden: One of the most significant drawbacks of attending college is the potential financial burden. Tuition fees, books, accommodation, and other expenses can lead to substantial debt. 
  2. No Guarantee of Success: A college degree does not guarantee employment or career success. The job market can be competitive, and not all fields have the same demand or job growth. Graduates may find themselves unemployed or in jobs unrelated to their field of study.
  3. Time Commitment: College requires a significant time commitment, often four years or more, for a bachelor’s degree. This time could be spent gaining work experience, learning trade skills, or pursuing other interests.

Additional Resources:

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👋 FOLLOW PETE NEWSOME ONLINE:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petenewsome/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PeteNewsome

👋 FOLLOW RICKY BAEZ ONLINE:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/efrainrickybaez/
Blog Articles: https://www.baezco.com/baezco-blog

Pete Newsome:

You're listening to the Careers Zen Careers podcast. I'm Pete Newsome, joined by Ricky Baez. Ricky, how are you today?

Ricky Baez:

Pete, it's another beautiful day in central Florida.

Pete Newsome:

It's the end of the year, Ricky. We've made it through 2023. How are you feeling?

Ricky Baez:

I still got two more days.

Pete Newsome:

You're not there yet. You're not going to call it good.

Ricky Baez:

I'm not there yet. A lot can happen tomorrow and Sunday.

Pete Newsome:

Well, things are changing rapidly. We know that, right, which is one of the reasons we're talking about this subject today College. Who would have thought, if you look back 10 years ago, that we would be having this conversation seriously questioning whether college is necessary, whether it makes sense for young people coming out of high school? Today, there's a strong case to be made that it doesn't for a lot of people, that it's not as valuable as it used to be. Does that sound crazy?

Ricky Baez:

It does sound crazy. It does it does Because, looking back into when I was growing up, you and I are both GeneXers and I'm pretty sure your parents told you the only way to really get a good job is to get a college education just how my parents told me. And here we are, 30 plus years later, and we find out that's not really the case, right?

Pete Newsome:

Well, a lot of people are still holding on to it that it is Right. But you just said the words that always get my attention, make my skin crawl when I hear it. It was words that were told to me as well, get a job, yeah Ugh.

Pete Newsome:

I mean, that is just gross to me, right? But if you're a young person and you have your whole life ahead of you, you have your future and you're optimistic and you're looking forward and thinking what is what do I get to do with my life, what kind of impact do I get to have on the world? And you're told get a job. I mean, all right, where's the music I have? Where is it?

Ricky Baez:

You got me, there you go, you get a rig.

Pete Newsome:

Right. What a terrible thing to hear. I think it's demoralizing. I think it is the polar opposite message that we should give to young people. I mean, I was listening to a podcast last night about it. It was on Joe Rogan, a guy who was a gold miner. A gold miner, I mean. This guy lives in Alaska, does gold mining. He finds mammoth bones Like and I'm thinking what a life this guy's living. Right, and here I am living a boring existence. It's a happy existence. I like what I do, I like where I am, but there's so much to see and explore in the world. And if you're young and told, go to college so you can quote, get a job, I think that's awful. I think life should be about so much more so a question for you, pete.

Ricky Baez:

Are you making that assertion now, with the knowledge you have now, or have you've always thought that way, even back when our parents told us that we do need to get a job?

Pete Newsome:

Well, when you're young, your perspective is limited, right? You don't know any better. So I was told that and it didn't excite me. I'll tell you that I didn't know Really. No, I didn't know what that meant. I didn't know what I wanted to do, I didn't know necessarily what my strengths were at the time. But I was told, hey, this is the path you need to take, and shame on me perhaps, right At 18 years old, for not stopping and really questioning that deeper. But that's hard to do, I think, for a lot of young people who college seems safe right. I wrote a blog about it the other day and that was the phrase that I use, so I'll repeat it now College feels safe. Going off to Alaska to be a gold miner does not feel safe. Right. If your kid comes up and says I'm going to be the next Yukon Cornelius, right, and hopefully everyone gets that reference. Shame on you if you don't Watch your Christmas movies, yes. Then that conversation is not going to go well in most American households, not today.

Ricky Baez:

Not today. Well, you know what I take it back? It might be today. Today that conversation might go well. Because look back again, back when we were growing up to me, at least to me when my mom told me here's what I need to do, because back then, in order for you to be successful, you needed two things A job with a pension.

Pete Newsome:

That's what you needed. There you go, a pension.

Ricky Baez:

And 50% of that doesn't exist that much anymore. Right, a pension is not. That's something that you hardly ever hear, but back then that was the goal. Spend 30 years in an organization, you get a gold watch and you get some kind of a stipend every month for the rest of your life, and the only way that exists today is to federal government or the military.

Pete Newsome:

Right. But if you think about it, that dependency of you having your financial future, your well-being, tied that closely to your employer that to me sounds as insane as being told get a job Like you know, you shouldn't have to be tied to the employer. Now, that's why I'm a big fan of the freelance market, as you know. That's not really what we're talking about today. We've talked about that enough on our different shows. But college is not the given or I'll say, in my strong opinion, could not be a given for every student coming out of high school, and certainly not as much as it was in the past, right 20 years ago, maybe even 10 years ago.

Ricky Baez:

Here's how I look at it today. Right, I think the way America does it right now is wrong. That's just my personal opinion, because and of course I'm biased with this, because what I'm about to say is it's how I experienced it it's the way I think the rest of America should do it, because unless you know exactly within the bottom of your heart what you want to do with your life, you don't Right. So if you want to be a doctor and you come from a family of doctors, your life is already pre, your career path has already been paved right. If you name your kid Jeeps, you've already paved your kid's career path right. He's going to be a dang butler, right. Butler, of course. Butler right. Yes, but the way I did it, I think it's the best.

Ricky Baez:

I finished high school. I didn't go to college right away. I went into the, into the, into the military. I figured out who I was and what I wanted to do, and then I took college more seriously when I got out. Have I started college right after high school? I don't think I would have taken it as seriously as I would have after spending four years traveling the world and having a blast.

Pete Newsome:

And that's such a great point in that you gained life experience and you matured, you aged, you saw the world literally in your case, right and being in the military and so you had a lot of knowledge that you wouldn't have otherwise had coming out of high school and I'm a big fan of that too, right? So maybe that's really the question. It's not about whether college is necessary, it's whether college is Well. I think that still is the question, though, but whether college is necessary right away and that's, I think, as much as anything, an impossible question to answer if you don't have enough perspective. How many people know really what they are going to want to do 10, 20, 30 years from now, when they're 18 years old? It's nearly impossible.

Ricky Baez:

It's nearly impossible, but I think the question is right. It's not whether college is valuable. I think the question is how can the person who's thinking about college, what steps are they taking to determine their value with college? Because college is only as good as what you're willing to do with it. What's the purpose of me gaining on that knowledge if I'm not going to use it? And we can't say college is the path to success, because two of America's most profitable companies, microsoft and actually more, because you got Microsoft College Dropout, apple College Dropout, facebook College Dropout you see that trend here, right?

Pete Newsome:

Let's add the caveat that we have to. They were dropping out of really good colleges Harvard there you go, there's your thumbs up button. Then they had to work hard to get into in the first place.

Pete Newsome:

They had to be very studious. They had to have incredible potential you don't just end up there and as much as anything, they were willing to put in the work independently. That's a huge X factor in all of this. Whatever it was, they had the maturity, the drive, the motivation to build something independently of anyone else. That is rare. I don't know that we can count on that being the norm for everyone to say I'm going to build the next Facebook. But if you're willing to put in that effort and you have the right idea, I absolutely agree that you could be wasting your time, potentially missing a window of opportunity if you're in college.

Ricky Baez:

But the point I was trying to make with that is to go to college, just to go to college, you're wasting your time. There has to be a purpose, there has to be a reason, the reason your parents told you 20, 30 years ago. That reason changed. That reason changed. College provides a much different value today than what it did 30, 40 years ago, because 30, 40 years ago we didn't have the education or, I'm sorry, we didn't have the access to the information that we do have right now. Back then the only place you can go right was the library. That's number one, number two, any kind of a cable access television and if you were lucky, maybe you got some of your neighbor's HBO, right, and you got to see some good documentaries and other things. But really it depends on your purpose. That's what I'm saying.

Ricky Baez:

And look, this is coming from a professor, because I teach at a college today, right, and I got to be careful with this. When a student comes to me, pete, and they ask me you teach, because they all call me teach, should I go get a master? Should I do this, should I do that? And I stop them, I'm like what do you want to do? Do you want to make money, or do you want to be knowledgeable about something, or passionate. They're like I want to make money. I'm like start a business, start a business, right, you don't need to go to college to make money, not here in America. Right, you can just start a business and then you can do it that way. Now, if you are passionate about something, then yeah, go to college. Now, the caveat is if you want to be a doctor, an engineer, an attorney, you have to go to college.

Pete Newsome:

You have to right.

Ricky Baez:

The last thing I wanted for someone to operate on me that they got their experience from YouTube.

Pete Newsome:

Well, I think there's an overlap, though, in what you just said, where starting a business without knowledge is almost a recipe for failure. So gaining knowledge either through advanced education or through advanced experiences. So my staffing business that I started 18 years ago didn't require a college degree, but did require deep knowledge of sales, business networking, how to transact everything that I was going to need to do to run the business successfully. So, while it didn't need to be gained in college, it did need to be gained somehow, and I gained that through experience. So to say, start a business. I don't think it's that simple, because from the day I started mine, people would say I want to do that, I want to go start a business. And my first question was great, doing what I don't know yet? Well then, you have no business thing. You shouldn't be thinking about starting a business, because the idea has to drive the opportunity, in my opinion, not the other way around. You can't just say I'm Wanted to be an entrepreneur, great, what are your skills? Well, I don't have any.

Pete Newsome:

Really off topic, ricky, but it's one of my no, it's not, no, pete.

Pete Newsome:

I don't think it is. This is perfect. I met this guy, uh-huh he, I Certainly is not gonna be listening this. I don't mind telling the story. Okay, but this guy had it appeared to have it all. When I met him, our kids were my kids were young at the time I would see this guy never seemed to be working. Right when I was where I would show up for, you know, the the daddy and doughnuts day, and dressed in my suit and tie, coming from in between appointments, this guy was wearing shorts and t-shirts. This is. This is 20 years ago, more than 20 years, god. I was so envious this guy and and One day a mutual friends said this guy would like to meet with me because he's looking for a job.

Pete Newsome:

And the reason he was looking for a job? When he got out of college, his family bought him a business. They said what do you want to do? When he picked something I won't mention because I maybe it would come back to him and they bought him a business and it ran into the ground over a couple of years and then he found himself needing a job. So I was seeing this guy running around, you know, having a great time, while he should have been working on this business, yeah, and so I met with him. I said, great, well, let me find out what he wants to do. I'm happy to spend a few minutes.

Pete Newsome:

So we met for coffee and he said I said, what do you want to do? He goes well, I really don't want to work in an office. Okay, well then, baby sales. Right, you seem to have good personality Present. Well, I don't want to have to sell anything. Okay, well, what, what do you? What do you have in mind then that you think you might be qualified to do? Because I'd like to be a consultant. And I said consult about what he said whatever is needed to help people succeed in business, I thought. I said I said it delicately I'm like well, I don't know if you have those qualifications given your recent track record, but go do your homework, get on the job boards and see what kind of positions you think you may be qualified for.

Pete Newsome:

My point is this is someone who did it the opposite way. Right Was get handed a business to run without any experience, thought that it was a Reasonable to go out in the world and hang a shingle as a consultant without any Real value that they could bring, and so I think you could achieve it, either through experience of work, learning from someone else or college, but it's not a given. That's where I think we're landing with this. So let's, but let's talk, let's explore some pros and cons of going to college versus not now. You said a minute ago Some professions like if you're going to be a medical doctor, yep, you have to follow that path, you have to get the degrees and the education that goes with it. So many professions have that. So that's one. But what, what else? What are the other pros and reasons why college is a good thing?

Ricky Baez:

Well, I mean, I it's, it's skilled development, right? You, you, you. If you need a specific set of skills, right, you could only get through the means of a traditional college format, then yes, you need that again engineering, law, sciences, all all of those areas. So you get networking right. You get some colleges, those Ivy League colleges, that it doesn't matter what you learn, but as soon as you slap the name of that college of your resume, you're in a fraternity, right? So that networking is there.

Pete Newsome:

Yeah, but that that's very rare error, don't you think? I don't think that applies beyond Maybe 10 schools in the country then that's, that's very rare horse doors.

Ricky Baez:

10 schools, right, but because those 10 schools are the only ones who would do that. Now Will you see somebody who had you know what Hold up? Not really because asking situations, pete, where people have hired other people just because they went to UF, just because they went to FSU, just because they went to Miami, the fraternity is there.

Pete Newsome:

I Think it's, I think it's loose, if at best, and that I would not argue that's a reason to go to college Because you someone's gonna potentially hire you because you went to the same school.

Ricky Baez:

I think that's I think that's, I don't know. The movie old school says different.

Pete Newsome:

I Mean there's, there's opportunity. You know, the one of the arguments for is you know, you gain critical thinking skills, you gain maturity and and well, yes, but do you really, in that bubble environment of a college campus and we've seen a lot in the news lately about how college students are behaving publicly and responding to some of the things going on in the world, and it's a bubble that, and what you can get away with in that environment, may not be the best training for what look life outside of that environment is like.

Ricky Baez:

I kind of think it is. I kind of think it is because if you because I know exactly what you're talking about you got these college students that they feel like they have to stand up for their rights, quote, unquote and Go ahead and do it and see how society a large response to that Right, I think the the pushback a college students would get in that environment is Exactly the lesson they need. And what better place to make that mistake than doing that in the college format Versus at work, where your career could be jeopardized right Only, only, if only, if you learn from the mistake right, and I think that's what may be lacking with a lot of the things that we see right now, where you know you're, you know the.

Pete Newsome:

Some of the things going on on college campuses aren't. There's no downside to, there's no penalty for For that were in the real world. You can't just decide, hey, I'm going to, you know, protest whatever. I decide to protest that day at my, at my job, right in my profession. You and I were talking about something, right before we started recording, where you said, hey, this is something that I might want to put out some content on, yeah, but a big percentage of my clients won't like it, so I'm not going to do it. That's real right. That is a real consideration. You have a belief. You're you. You have it for a good reason. We all have things that we that are important to us individually, but we have to consider what we put out in the, in the world and and what's going to come back to us. So, yes, we have freedom to say whatever we want, but there's also consequences.

Ricky Baez:

That's called critical thinking.

Pete Newsome:

I learned that in college well, you know, but maybe not right in college. So that's, but. But what? What are the positives? Let's, let's stay on the positive track, because I am. I am a big fan of higher education, for in the right circumstances, for the right individuals, for the right reasons, so that's. I don't want to come across too much like I'm not. Yeah, I want to talk through the positives and listen. I'd be hypocritical as a college grad, as someone who's you know, as of Next fall, three of my four children will be in college or have graduated from college. I guess, hopefully by then I'm not gonna my desk to have will have graduated, and a third one starting, and then the fourth is On that trajectory as well. I, but if the number four comes and says, hey, I have an alternative plan, I'm gonna be open to it. So, but that's a different discussion.

Ricky Baez:

I wanted to ask yeah, but no, because it's. I'm having that conversation right now with my family. We have a 10 year old right and now we're starting to have those conversations where my wife is like no, he's gonna go to college. And I'm saying I'm gonna let him decide. I'm gonna let him decide If he wants to go to the military first, I'll support it. If he wants to go to college first, I'll support it. If he wants to run, start his own business, go work for a little bit, I'll support it. You know what? I'm not gonna support Him doing nothing. I'm not gonna support that right.

Pete Newsome:

Well, what's worse, right, or what's better. Someone going to college is just to figure it out while they're there, right, and that's an expensive thing to do. Or I'm going to go get some real world experience that may help me figure it out as I go.

Ricky Baez:

I'll answer that question with the answer to this question. How many people would you guess are currently in their career path right now, not because they love the career path they chose, but because they've already invested 20 years of their life into this career path? Then might as well see you through right. How many people do you think? What percentage of the workforce do you think falls into that category?

Pete Newsome:

I mean, how many people are dissatisfied with what they're doing? But it feels stuck. I mean, is that really the question?

Ricky Baez:

I don't want to say dissatisfied, but how many? Well, you know what? Yeah, how many people are not happy with their career.

Pete Newsome:

Or doing it only because they feel like they have to.

Ricky Baez:

Because they spend so much time on it already.

Pete Newsome:

Yeah, I like 20 years into it and most Right, most so.

Ricky Baez:

So there's the answer. There's the answer. I think if you, if, if, if we push our kids to go to college just because that's the thing to do, we run the risk of them having to pick something because they have to go down this road, and then they're going to end up that way. I really think the best thing to do is just to be let them be the driver in their car and you're be their GPS, right? Where do you want to take you?

Pete Newsome:

there Right, when you think about who's advising young people, it's the, the, the parents that we're talking about right now, who probably would have done it differently if they could have started over and chose it a different path. I mean, there are people who have found their careers in and that's that's ultimately what we're talking about here. That's the goal. It's not about how you get there, it's about getting there where you end up. And there are people who and I've met lots of them, but but it's not the majority, right.

Pete Newsome:

And you have high school and college counselors giving giving advice. It may not be the advice that they wish they had followed, right, but they have to give it that. So I've had a couple of conversations recently with college career office career professionals who've said I've said, oh, I have to say this, right, I have to give this advice. Right Because it's because of my employer. Is well, is that weird?

Ricky Baez:

though. No, it's not good at all at all. It's, I think, in and look, we've had this conversation before. I really think in this is going to come off wrong. But I'm going to say it like how other countries are doing it right, where people in as soon as they hit 18, they go do two years in in the military, see what the world and life is all about, and then come back and figure out what you want to, what place you want to hold in this world that you've explored for a couple of years, right. So that's what to me right now. Yes, credibility and recognition is a good thing if you go to college and networking is a good thing. The critical thinking problem, summary skills, the career opportunities are all a good thing. But I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going to go on on a limb here. You can still find those things without going to college.

Pete Newsome:

You can, and those countries who have that service requirement. If it, if, if it were here, I think, man, if you, it doesn't have to be military, it could be any kind of civil service Something. What a great thing that would be. Absolutely, it'd be so much better off. We're not going to change that, unfortunately.

Ricky Baez:

Today we should run for president, we should run for president. You run for president, I'll be your VP, and I've been like look, something happens to my boy over here. You'll have talk of Tuesdays every day.

Pete Newsome:

Yeah, I'm, but I am surprised that there's. There has to be reasons that you and I haven't explored as to why that is never talked about in the US, but it. The countries who do have those policies seem to do well by them. But you did mention something again as a positive that there's credibility associated with having that college degree, whether it's deserved or not. It exists, especially with a lot of baby boomers and Gen Xers who are in the positions of leadership and authority today. And so I've been told in my job as a staffing professional many times where, hey, this job requires this degree. Why Well, the answer gets a little fuzzy I left. Or there's a company that I worked for years ago who had a requirement you could not be promoted above a director level or maybe even into a director level I can't remember exactly unless you had a master's degree. That makes no sense.

Pete Newsome:

How arbitrary is that it was terrible thing, awful, and yet that's their policy. And this was a public company with thousands of employees. So these things still exist. Whether they should or not is irrelevant, and so we have to acknowledge that at some level when making these decisions and forming an opinion on is college worth it Because that's a real factor A lot of doors will be closed to you without a college degree.

Ricky Baez:

Still today, and here's what I tell my clients, right, whenever they ask me to take a look at their job descriptions, to update them, and I always see college degree required and I ask why is that there? You don't need that. You don't need that because what's going to end up for most positions? Right, it's again. We talked about the sciences and law and everything. But I tell them you don't need that because here's what you want to do and here's what I look for.

Ricky Baez:

Pete, I don't look for the education you have. I look for the behaviors that the education I'm looking for is supposed to exhibit. Right, for example, the difference between knowledge and intelligence. This is you having all this information, knowledge, is you graduating from college and you get this lambskin that says you have earned X credit and you now have all these skills. That doesn't mean anything to me. You know what means everything to me? How you use those skills. Now we're transferring into intelligence, right? So what I tell people, clients, is, instead of requiring a degree, put a requirement of the actions that you want, the behaviors you want to see from that degree. That's way better, because if you ask for a degree, you're going to get just that Somebody that has the degree but doesn't necessarily use it right. So in the interview process, that's what you want to look for.

Pete Newsome:

Well, yeah, when it comes to interviewing college graduates, you have almost two types of degrees, and this may be too much of a generalization. You have specialized degrees, where someone is going to school to obtain that degree, to be in that specific profession. We've mentioned a couple of them. Right, being a medical doctor, a lawyer, an engineer. If you get an engineering degree, you can change your mind along the way, of course, but companies are going to hire you out of college with the intention of you being an engineer for them, right. But then you take the massive degrees that exist liberal arts degrees where companies have no idea what they're hiring an individual for, and a lot of times the individuals have no idea what kind of job they're even qualified for which is to say not many or what kind of job they should pursue, what a I mean. Just that alone speaks volumes about how flawed the system is. I graduated with a political science degree. I was qualified professionally to do absolutely nothing. That is a fact.

Ricky Baez:

Wait a minute, pete. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You spend four years at least at an institution where you have to submit work and you have to earn that work. So you have shown that when you start something, you are committed to it and you've finished that project. You don't think that's a skill set.

Pete Newsome:

I think that's a stretch right, Really, yeah, I mean because if you looked at my GPA you would realize I wasn't that committed to it along the way I did. I'll just say it. I did basically the bare minimum to pass the classes that I need to Now. I invested a lot of my personal time, my free time, in student government while I was a student. I'm more proud of those achievements. I learned more from that activity than I did through the four years of classes. So I won't say college was a waste for me, but the college degree itself didn't provide any inherent value in what I could deliver to whoever hired me.

Ricky Baez:

So here I am almost moving my goalposts because, based on what you just said, the college itself didn't give you the education you felt like you needed, but the college experience did.

Pete Newsome:

Well, I took it. Yes, my circumstances led to that. It was very involved in student government for a number of years and was a student senator and director of student lobbying while I was at Florida State. I did a lot of things that had nothing to do with being in school and so, yes, it did. The environment presented those opportunities. I was involved in a fraternity. I did things through that organization as well and my network grew. So, yeah, I mean all those things. Those were in the positive column but those are already given if you go to college. You could just as easily go to college and not join any clubs, not be involved in any extracurriculars, and go through and have that same political science degree and I would still argue you're not qualified to do anything with it when you get out of school.

Ricky Baez:

I mean no man, I'm still in the fence on that one, because I have seen situations where we have hired people with a college degree in music and we hired them to do something else and because in the interview they have shown some of the behaviors that we are looking for. Now we did a discounted just because it was a liberal arts degree, just how you handle yourself with that information and going forward. Now I don't make it a requirement, I don't do that. I do it because, again, I'm looking for those behaviors. But I think you can put that on the positive column that the college experience is just as valuable and I use that in air quotes as the reason you're going to college.

Ricky Baez:

The education you get there right, but the peace people forget and I cannot stress this enough, Pete, getting the education is not enough. That college degree gets you in the door. How you use your college degree is what keeps you inside of the other side of that door, and that's the piece that people need to fully understand. Because, as a teacher, pete, let me tell you I cannot tell you how many times, when students are about to graduate, they think that the heavens are going to open up and jobs are just going to fall on their laps and I'm like guys, it so does not work that way. You still need, you're still going to start at the bottom.

Ricky Baez:

It's like Navy SEAL, right? I know a couple of them, right? Here's the one thing that they have told me. They're like as soon as you finish buds, like six months of training, you think you've done it all, and then you get to the unit, you're still the boot, you're still the new guy, you're still the rookie. They're like you think you're special because you finished that. No, you still got to do all these things. Same thing with a college experience right, you still need to pay your dues.

Pete Newsome:

And certainly some degrees. They could almost be stack ranked as far as what opportunities exist when you come out, but by default no one is looking. Employers aren't seeking out for specific jobs. A lot of the students with degrees that aren't specific to anything they just aren't.

Pete Newsome:

And the field, and it's become very crowded too. Right, that's another thing. College degrees used to be more meaningful because fewer people had them, and so that's also so you could make it. You have to decide, as an employer, who's more valuable to you Someone who's been in college for four years and earns a degree that really doesn't apply to your business? Or someone who was committed to learning something for four years that's somewhat related to the business, or at least transferable skills, and they stuck to it for four years and they were promoted along the way, maybe, and they came with all this actual real world experience that they can apply for you now. Who's a better hire?

Ricky Baez:

I don't know If they're hungry. That's second person.

Pete Newsome:

That's second person I hire for hunger Pete. Yeah, and so I think it. Just we have to acknowledge that it's checking that box to get the bachelor's degree doesn't buy you what it used to, right? Is that fair?

Ricky Baez:

No, it's fair, and it is not the only avenue right, because the reason our parents told us that back in the 80s it's exactly how you said there isn't. There was very few people with it, so therefore that degree made it more valuable. And the jobs that our parents were trying to get us away from, the dirty jobs the plumbers, electricians, constructors they're the ones making bank right now, pete, when I was a recruiter for Sears well I mean, I wasn't a recruiter, I was managing a recruiting team. You know how hard it was to find an HVAC tech in California. We were offering $45 an hour and we cannot find anybody Right 45 bucks an hour. A lot of people applied, but not the people with the right qualifications.

Pete Newsome:

So yeah, and you can apply that to so many trades right now that exist where there's a shortage. That is something that you know. We just did a podcast two weeks ago on alternate career paths and options, so we're going to continue to produce a lot of content, exploring these different options right and trying to help young people as much as anything else. I mean, this is really what it's about Make that determination without blindly going forward and, you know, saying this is the answer, without asking all the right questions. That, to me, is what's most important.

Ricky Baez:

This is the answer without asking all the right questions. I like that. No seriously. I like that. We'll keep it that.

Pete Newsome:

Yes, I really like that.

Ricky Baez:

No, because that wow, that part's important, because sometimes you're asking all the wrong questions and then somebody's answers it in such a way that like I was never even looking at it that way, or you're not asking them at all.

Pete Newsome:

Right, I think the image in my picture of when my oldest was getting ready to go to high school. We went to an open house at the school she ended up going to and the admissions director put up a slide that I then saw subsequent times with my other students or students, my kids, who went to the same high school, but it was a chart of all the colleges where the grad senior class had gone the year before and the percentage of students that went to college. That's what they were selling the value of that school with, not how they were going to succeed, what we're preparing for them for in the real world. It was just that metric as the most meaningful one of all, and I don't think there were any others. And so it was a parent, because that's what they knew parents value and wanted to see. So who was asking the question about whether that was what is important or most important or what happened to those kids? I'd be more interested in where they were 10 years later, right, 20 years.

Ricky Baez:

Exactly. That is a much better KPI. That right there, not just who went from that high school, the people who went, who found a career they're passionate about, who is successful in their own mind right, everybody has a different definition of success. Are they happy with what they chose to do? You show me those metrics. That is something I'm going to use to make a decision over that same my kid there. Just because you got billions and billions sold McDonald's, does that? That doesn't mean I mean it's a great marketing, but it doesn't mean it's the best for you. So that's the number. I want to look how many of the students are happy, are happy with the choice that that they made?

Pete Newsome:

And then we got to define happy. Well, we all have to define that for ourselves individually, and I'll direct anyone listening to the blog that's on Zengigcom about finding your icky guy. Finding, if it's a word you're unfamiliar with, it's a Japanese term that we repurposed to. It really means purpose, finding purpose in life, but we've changed it around a little bit to be focused on purpose in your career, and it's what are you good at, what are you like doing, what is the world need, and then what can you be paid for? I mean, those four components should all be considered, and I'm a big fan of that now being a question that you should pose to younger people. It's a question I'm posing to my children and say consider those things, take the time to get that right and then choose your path accordingly. And if that path is to college, great, that's wonderful, let's support that, let's encourage that. But if it's an alternate path, let's not dismiss it, let's make sure that we give that equal credibility and invest time in learning more about it.

Ricky Baez:

I think that the best thing we can do to teach this next generation again is to just be their GPS, be their GPS, figure out what makes them tick, figure out what makes them happy. And you know what, pete, I just started thinking that way about five years ago, and the reason I started thinking that way five years ago is because I started seeing in social media something that scared me back then but now I'm okay with. I'm seeing a lot of people, a lot of young kids, and by young I mean like out of high school. Right, they decide to sell everything they own and they go live in a van. Have you seen that trend? Yeah, yeah, at first, no, but at first I'm like, what are they doing? But then, the more I think about it, look, are they happy? Do they have a job? Do they? Are they doing what makes them happy? And then not hurting? Yes, then who cares what? I think right. If they're happy with it, fine, right.

Pete Newsome:

Well, and if you're going to do it right, what a great time to do it as a young person.

Ricky Baez:

Absolutely. Ah, dude, yes, I tell every young person that I see right now is get the stuff out of your system right now. Right and I'm a big proponent Either join the military or travel the world on your own. After high school, Remember out what is it that you're passionate about. And then as long as I hate to sound hokey, but I'm going to say it as long as what you do you're happy with, you're passionate about, it, drives you, the money's going to come Absolutely.

Pete Newsome:

The money's going to come. That's right. Focus on that. You and I are in complete agreement on that for sure. So, ricky, I think we've covered this enough for today. I encourage anyone listening. If you're a parent of a young person, if you are a young person trying to figure this out, follow us on Zengig. Get on our website Zengig. com. This is what we're focused on now. This is a direction we're going in. We're really trying to help young people figure this out, and we're going to figure it out along the way, too, because we're posing some questions and exploring some things that aren't necessarily going to be popular with a lot of folks. Some of the conversations I've had with colleges recently who I want to partner with, they don't like when we bring this topic up.

Ricky Baez:

They're not a fan of it.

Pete Newsome:

One the why but we have to be true to what we believe is real and we're going to do that. And so we're going to push this and we're going to question it and I'm going to do my best to take it to the high school level too and see how much this message is really being shared with young people who may still be told go get a job, go get a degree so you can get a job. We know that's dated information now and there's so much more to a profession and a career and the world at large. So we're going to keep pushing the envelope. If you have questions for us, super easy questions at zengeggcom. We'd love to hear from you. And, of course, if you could rate and review the show five stars, that would be awesome so more people can listen. Anything else, ricky, or do we?

Ricky Baez:

cover it all. No, no, I think we bid a certain animal to death.

Pete Newsome:

I think we did.

Ricky Baez:

With this one.

Pete Newsome:

So we're good. We did that All right. Well, happy New Year everyone. Let's make it a great 2024. Thank you, as always.

Ricky Baez:

Thank you, have a good one and yeah, I'm sticking with Miami. Still Go ahead.