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finding career zen
How to Address Being Overqualified for a Job
Do you feel like your expansive resume is a double-edged sword in the job market? You're not alone. Join hosts Pete Newsome and Ricky Baez as they unpack the 'overqualified' label, offering insights and strategies from their own recruitment and HR backgrounds to help you turn a surplus of experience into an asset.
To start, Pete and Ricky share some of their top resume and cover letter techniques for steering clear of the overqualification trap. They walk you through ways to present your professional history that align with the roles you're eyeing and discuss how to articulate your narrative in a way that truly resonates with prospective employers.
They also explore job search strategies that can set you apart in a competitive landscape. Authenticity and a genuine story are your best allies when navigating your career path.
Get ready to make it past the initial screening and into the interview room, where your full potential can shine!
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Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/efrainrickybaez/
Blog Articles: https://www.baezco.com/baezco-blog
You're listening to the Finding Career zen podcast. I'm Pete Newsome, joined by Ricky Baez today. Ricky, how are you?
Ricky Baez:I am great, Pete. I haven't even started Christmas shopping, have you?
Pete Newsome:Well, I'm dressed sort of like an elf right now, so you think I would have, but I don't do a whole lot of Christmas shopping. Ricky, I've been married for a long time to a wonderful woman who likes shopping a whole lot more than I do, so it's a good balance. It's a very symbiotic relationship that we have. That's what makes a tick, that's good to hear man Awesome. I wish you the best. It's the middle of December. You have a couple weeks to go, you're okay.
Ricky Baez:I'm going to wait until the 24th watch. I'll tell you what don't get me anything because I'm not getting you anything.
Pete Newsome:How's that? Well, at least you're off the list.
Ricky Baez:brother, you're off the list. I had a Wawa gift card ready for you. I mean you're the only one. I got something for.
Pete Newsome:I'd use it if I had it, that's for sure. Awesome, awesome. But today we have a different gift we're going to share. We're going to share to job seekers who are worried about being labeled as overqualified. I put a brief video up a couple of weeks ago, shared it on LinkedIn, shared it on a couple of social media accounts. I got quite a bit of feedback from people wanting to know how to address it. Now, the perspective I was coming from was as a recruiter who's been told many times, too many times, over the years, that a candidate is overqualified and the manager didn't want to interview that candidate. I've always fought that. I've learned to overcome that, anticipate it. What about you, ricky? What's your experience with that dreaded word overqualified?
Ricky Baez:Now I have had some business partners tell me that. What I tell them is hey, hopefully you didn't verbalize that out loud to anybody, but let's have a conversation on why you think this person is qualified. That's number one. Number two have you had a conversation with this person and why you think the person is overqualified? Because for us to make the assessment without talking to the person it's a little bit of a moot point.
Pete Newsome:Let's talk about what we think it means and what it does mean, because from your perspective as an HR professional, it may differ a little bit than mine. Why does that make you nervous when you hear that word used?
Ricky Baez:Now I'm solely speaking from an HR perspective. It's because as soon as a business partner starts talking about somebody being overqualified now, you start opening the doors to start talking about age and you cannot be having that conversation in any kind of an interview process or even at work. To be honest, right, you cannot have that conversation. So in this particular arena, I like for my business partners and my teams to be very cautious in what they communicate. That can open up doors for other legal liabilities.
Pete Newsome:Understood, so you by default will assume that that word is synonymous with being old, Right? So I don't necessarily see it that way. I mean I get why you would. I think in many cases it probably is used that way. But I see it more the way it's been used when said to me by clients. They've been afraid that the candidate is being interviewed or considering a job that is beneath them professionally, financially, and that they'll leave instead of wanting to stay. So that's the way it's been used.
Pete Newsome:For me is because I hate hearing that phrase. Right, I reject it entirely. What does overqualified mean? I used to for years would kind of fire back and say does that mean they're too good for the job? Is that your concern? They're going to make you look bad as a manager because I don't like hearing it. But the reality is, more often than not in my experience, it's been used because a manager is concerned that that individual is not going to stay for the long term because they're taking a job that isn't really what they're looking for. So that's the perspective I think of it from.
Ricky Baez:And the other piece of it is because let's just start talking about why employers don't like it, and you said one of them. I don't want from an HR perspective, I don't want to have to deal with what I call a step employee. What does that mean? That means that a candidate is applying for a position. They're accepting a lesser position that they would normally would accept only to fill the gap between the job they had and the job they really want, Right?
Pete Newsome:Correct.
Ricky Baez:Yes, Right, so that's what I call a step employee. So from an employer's perspective, that's another reason why we would worry when we would come across somebody like that. But again, it's all about the conversation.
Pete Newsome:Well, I think on the surface it does raise a flag when you see that a candidate who has been operating at a high level is taking a lower level job. A candidate who has made significantly more income in the past is now taking a big pay cut. So I understand that hesitancy, but that's what a recruiter does. What I think our job is is a third party recruiter and I assume that an in-house recruiter should do the same is to get beneath the surface on those conversations and understand what the candidate is really looking for. So sure, you may scratch your head when you see someone who was a VP at a Fortune 500 company applying for a staff level job. I get why that's odd on the surface, but we don't know what's going on with that person's personal life. We don't know what's led to them having a change of heart in their career, wanting to start over, wanting to just not have the pressure that they used to have of a highly demanding job. There's limitless reasons and we don't know what those are unless and until we have the conversation.
Ricky Baez:And that's why that conversation is crucial. Before anybody can make any kind of assessment on somebody else, let's ask them why, right? Because let's be honest, it's look, I'm in my late 40s, right? I know you can tell. I know I look like I'm in my prime in my 20s. I get it, folks, I get it. But I'm in my late 40s and now almost to 50, I'm thinking about downsizing, right, my house, everything that I have, my son is about to be in high school right here in about four or five years, and I got to start thinking about what that's going to look like post high school. So when someone like me, in my age we start thinking about downsizing at home, chances are, if I did everything right financially, I'm going to start downsizing my professional life as well. So that's not too far fetched from the truth and what people are going through these days. So, yeah, that's a thing, pete.
Pete Newsome:So we know that managers Don't have bad intentions, right, they want to do the right thing for their organization, their team, even for the individual, when they express this concern. But we've also determined that a lot of times it's unfounded. Right, they worry about salary expectations being too high. Well, if the candidate's happy, then it's a good fit. Right, the job title being two junior well, same thing.
Pete Newsome:If the candidate's happy, then everyone should be happy, because an overqualified candidate using air quotes when I say that is probably going to have the most experience on your team and will bring the value that comes with that. So if you can get past these things on the surface as you should, there's a lot of great potential there with hiring a highly experienced candidate. Now, today, I want to help give the candidates some help, and so we will focus on age to some degree, because the feedback that I received from the post that I put up a couple of weeks ago was candidates asking how do I overcome this, how do I get away from that being said and thought about me, because I have lots of experience. So it was pretty clear to me that candidates need help, and that's one of the reasons I thought this would be a good episode to talk through today.
Ricky Baez:So how can a candidate prepare? So this is not like you're going to walk into an interview, you're not going to get the job, and I mean, hopefully a recruiting doesn't say this, but a recruited tells you you just overqualified. So what are some of the things that a candidate can do ahead of time? And then participation or something like that.
Pete Newsome:Yeah, let's start by just kind of listing quickly all the reasons why candidate may be concerned. Right, so you have experience, okay, so let's just kind of list those out Years of experience, maybe advanced degrees, job titles. Is there anything else that would generate cause for concern that you can think of?
Ricky Baez:It's not just a combination of what your experience is versus what you're applying for. Good point, because if you have a lot of experience in the executive C suite but now you're applying for a front of the line manager position, you can almost guarantee that people on the other end reviewing your information are going to have some questions or some assumptions. At the very least, Correct.
Pete Newsome:So the time and ability to address this will vary through the interview process right Through the application process. You've got to get to the interview first, so let's start with that initial application. You're going to send your resume over. Maybe you have to fill out a form that equates to a resume where you're listing your previous jobs and titles and salary, although I would recommend to candidates you don't have to share your salary in the past Not really relevant In my opinion.
Pete Newsome:You'll be asked ways to deflect around that. But my first recommendation to a candidate who is applying is to use your resume as a way to get in the door A key that opens, unlocks the door, if you will, and it is there to be customized. It is there to be used as a tool, just like a key, and you don't have to put everything you've done on the resume. So, even though we could argue all day long, you shouldn't have to do this right. Or, as my accountant likes to say, you don't want to shoot all over yourself. So you could argue whether you should do it, but reality is what it is. Perception is reality in people or people. So we know that concern exists whether it should or not. So, ricky, my first recommendation to candidates is cut your resume off at a point where you think it may cause someone to believe you're overqualified for that particular role you're applying for.
Ricky Baez:So here's where I'm going to mention something that you and I had a stark difference of opinion on a few months ago, right? Because, remember, the recruiter has about nine seconds to look at your resume and make a determination. You have to make your resume enticing enough for the recruiter to take a further step to make a connection with you. So what I say is get a good balance of putting what you know on your resume. Here we go and explain it in your cover letter. Ah, the cover letter. Here's why I say that. Here's why I say that.
Ricky Baez:I say that because when I was a recruiter, Pete, one of the things that really made me feel good about the interview is when the candidate addresses something before I have a question about it, Because that tells me the candidate is aware, the candidate is self-aware and if I bring that person on board, that person is going to have the emotional intelligence to be aware and address questions before they are questions. So if you're able to cut your resume short, but you're able to explain in your cover letter because we talked about this already on why you have so much experience and why you're looking to downgrade, I think that's going to put you in a better position for a better outcome at the end. What do you think?
Pete Newsome:I think that's a good way to do it, but I'll look at it from even a more broad sense. There's phases to an interview process. The first step is to get an actual interview, get to the point where you're able to have a live conversation, because those things are always going to be so much easier to address when you have that live interaction back and forth. When you get to hear someone's response, read their body language, ideally you'll know how well your message is being received. But you don't get that chance when you're doing it and writing. So I think a resume and a cover letter is there to be used, as I said a few minutes ago, as a tool. So when it comes to putting dates on your resume, you don't have to start at the beginning of your professional career, and I'll go even one further.
Pete Newsome:You may disagree with this. I want to hear your take. I think you can be creative in what you put down for your job titles as well. Now, I'm not saying you should fabricate things, but I'm saying you can massage job titles on your resume because they're so subjective out in the real world. So okay.
Ricky Baez:So let me ask you this Because I agree and disagree? Because the reason I agree and disagree is because I know, from an HR point of view, that your job title doesn't matter as much as your job description. Job titles can change and I know description can change, but what really matters is what you did. But I guess my concern is that if someone puts me down as a reference let's say they were my previous employee and then put me down as a reference hey, yeah, mike was your HR director. No, he wasn't. He was a senior generalist. Okay, so by operating yourself is different, right? Oh, I'll be talking about great, okay.
Pete Newsome:I'm saying downgrade yourself a little bit and doing it subtly. Let's say you were a vice president of sales. Well, maybe you were just a sales leader, okay.
Ricky Baez:I get what you're saying Absolutely.
Pete Newsome:You're not being disingenuous by saying that, but you are controlling the perception a little bit, which is the goal of the resume. If you make your resume appear as if your professional career started in 1990, right, or I'll say 2010 versus 1990, the interviewer may be a little surprised to think, to realize you're 20 years older than they thought you would be. But that's okay. That is going to give you the opportunity to address it live in the moment. So if you're worried about being considered overqualified, then don't put your graduation dates on your resume. Don't put your earliest dates of employment. You're not obligated to do that in any form or fashion.
Ricky Baez:So now that you said that, because I am picking on what you're putting down what about scope of past responsibility? Because I'm thinking if you were a VP before and you're looking for that next level up, you're going to put that on your resume everything you've done as a leader. But if you don't want to come across as too qualified, you could still tell the same story, but not what you did as a leader, but what you did as an employee because you had a boss. So let's talk about what you did for your boss and don't make it sound as executive-y. That's not a word, folks. Don't even try to say it. That's just made that up. An executive is possible. Now, I know it sounds like lying. It is not lying. You're telling the same story in a different way, right?
Ricky Baez:So, talk about what you've done as an employee, not what you've done as a leader. Would that be?
Pete Newsome:a fair assessment? Yeah, because what we're really talking about is omitting things on your resume. So let's just go with three options. If you're a candidate, are you going for a job that is at the same level, or are you going for a job that's at a higher level than the one that you were in? Or, in the case of what we're talking about today, at a lower level than what you've been in before? Proceed accordingly, just be smart about it.
Pete Newsome:And so, if you need to for lack of a better way to phrase it dumb down your resume because that's in your interest in that particular scenario.
Pete Newsome:By all means do it and then explain it live. I mean, that's what we're really talking about here is use your resume and or cover letter as a tool to get you to the live interview and then you have an opportunity to explain. I think by not doing that, then you can hear a point a few minutes ago of recruiters taking just a few seconds to look at a resume. It's going to appear that you're not qualified, because they're going to make those judgments and assessments based on what they see in the moment and they'll think this one, this resume, got here by mistake. I mean, how are you thrown out? They're probably not going to stop and explore further if the resume looks way too senior for the role that they're recruiting for. Got you that makes sense. Is that a flaw? You think you think that's a flaw in the recruiting process or is it just chalk it up to? You know it is what it is.
Ricky Baez:As far as how long it takes or as far as making the initial.
Pete Newsome:We know that recruiters will kick back resumes that seem to be not a good fit for various reasons, over qualify being one of them.
Ricky Baez:If this is a flaw, then it's our fault. If it's a flaw because we put a lot of pressures and recruiters to produce, so let's take a step back. Right, we talked a few minutes ago how long it takes to review a resume. Right, so that's because of the nature of the work. So by the nature of the work, we kind of forced the recruiters to make adjustments relatively quickly, right? So if they see something that either says under or over qualify, they're because of the nature of the work, because of how leadership have pushed them to perform and produce, because time is money, then that kind of forced the hand, kind of forced the issue for the recruiters to make that quick action decision. And look, they're human beings, some. Right, we are human beings, so we just got to make sure that we get the right balance. So, is it a flaw? It is. It's a flaw that can always use some improvement, always. So we just got to find better ways how to do it.
Pete Newsome:Well, here's what we know to be definitively true when it comes to recruiters. Everyone needs to know this. Recruiters are trying to find the best match for the role, the single best match, and they're going to use all of their knowledge, experience, everything they've been exposed to. Some things are conscious, some things are subconscious. They're going to apply all of that within five to 10 seconds when they look at a resume and make a go or no go decision. So you have to acknowledge that. That's step one. Whether there's a better way to do it, if life could be different, that's irrelevant in this particular scenario. You're trying to be self-serving and the goal is to get to the next level, which is an in-person interview, or at least whatever that next level is for that scenario. So operate accordingly. That's what I always tell people with resumes, provided you don't fabricate anything. That's a huge caveat that has to be in place, right? Because if there's something on your resume, you have to be able to defend it, and it's got to be real. Now I also want to use this as an opportunity to give a little commercial use a third-party recruiter because we know that these things are going to come up. If you're a third-party recruiter, your job is to sell your candidate once you've determined that they're the best fit for the role, and I always took the approach and encouraged my team to do this today to point out whatever may be perceived as a flaw, to address that on the front end with their client, and that's what I used to do with my client. So, ricky, if I knew that you were, if I was submitting you for a candidate that required a bachelor's degree and you didn't have a bachelor's degree but you had experience that more than compensated for it, the first thing out of my mouth would be to let them know I know Ricky doesn't have a bachelor's degree, but here's why that doesn't matter. Now I have to understand my client well enough to know that you know, if I'm submitting you to be, you have to be hired as a medical doctor, and I say you don't have a bachelor's degree.
Pete Newsome:Well, that's a problem, right, but in many cases it's a subjective requirement it's nice to have. Sometimes it is, in theory, a hard requirement, but it's not really a hard requirement, right, it's just something that the company says is a hard requirement. So we have to understand all of these things and then sell around it. Now, good recruiters also going to know whether they're wasting their time with that, if it truly is a hard requirement. So you have to know that first. But there's very few, if any, perfect candidates out there. Everyone has a flaw almost everyone anyway and so I want to highlight those flaws, because my logic has always been if I tell you what the problem is with the candidate, you can't use it against me later. So let me tell you what the problem is. The worst thing about the candidate have a very compelling reason as to why it doesn't matter, and then we're just going to be left talking about the good. So I always want to get the bad out of the way up front.
Ricky Baez:So, pete, let's make a real, a real defined distinction between a good staffing agency and a crappy one.
Ricky Baez:Here's why I'm bringing that up, because what you just brought up you just brought up a lot of time, a lot of effort that it takes for the recruiter to get to that level of information, to have that communication with the client. Look, here's why I think this person is perfect ABC. Here's why I think it's not ABC. It's an agent right, versus a crappy one that just they just want to get paid for sending them resumes. Here you go, whether they're with the organization for 30 days or 30 years, they don't care. They just want to get the you know, be able to send an invoice for that candidate Versus a good one that they don't focus on just filling the seats. They focus on filling the right seats that's made just for the client. That's going to last them a long time. That's a really good distinction to make, because there's some really good ones, like Four Corners, and there's some really crappy ones out there that really do a crappy job by the client.
Pete Newsome:Well, no one's a bad recruiter for very long, right? If you operate that way, you won't stay with your organization very long. You probably won't stay in the industry very long. You have to have a long-term perspective. When you're speaking with candidates about what they want, Is it just as when you're speaking with a client about what they want and need.
Pete Newsome:You have to consider both sides, and my philosophy has always been and always will be bad news early is good news. Let's get it all out upfront. If let's say the hours aren't attractive, then I'm going to tell the candidate about the hours right up front. If it's a super intense environment and we know that a lot of people will be turned off by that, we're going to tell that to the candidates early in the conversation. Because if we get all the bad news out of the way, we're only left with good.
Pete Newsome:The same thing happens when you present a candidate, and part of recruiter's role is to first be convinced themselves, and then you have to sell the candidate. So I'm not big on selling a candidate on a job. I'm not big on selling a client on the wrong candidate. But once I've been convinced that this is the right person, if I'm a good recruiter and I am then I'm going to go to the wall for my candidate. And if they don't have a degree and I know that doesn't matter I'm not going to let that get in the way. If they've been in a senior role and now they're wanting to take a more junior role or take a big pay cut because it's a job that they want now, making no mistake, I'm going to question all of that as well. If I see the VP from the Fortune 500 company wanting to take a staff level job, I'm going to ask about it. Of course I am. Why wouldn't I? It's justifiable, it's rational, but I'm not going to let it get in the way of an otherwise great candidate.
Ricky Baez:So let me ask this piece. So I did the interview. Let's say I am that candidate, I'm that candidate that was the VP for 20 years, right, and now I'm looking to Don Gritt. I made it through the application process. I made it through the pre-screen. Now I'm in an in-person interview. Do you suggest that I just keep anything to myself about mentioning about being overqualified? Should I wait for the recruiter to bring it up? I know I answered this earlier.
Pete Newsome:I think you put it front and center.
Ricky Baez:Front and center right. That's what I was thinking.
Pete Newsome:That's what I was thinking. That's what I was thinking. You have to anticipate what's going to happen, and I think we've defined already that this perception exists, this bias exists. Okay, fine, Now you can say and some people will say, we see this on LinkedIn all the time. Well, I don't want to go work for a company that thinks that way. Okay, a recruiter, multiple recruiters, multiple employees does not make up a company. And so if you poll, if it's more than a company of one, you're going to have differing perspectives and views and opinions on things political, social, you name it. So don't let that get in the way of an otherwise good opportunity. Right, People don't know that they're doing something wrong. They think they're doing the right thing. So don't let that bother you too much. If you're a candidate who says, well, if they don't want me as I am, I don't want to go work for that organization, that's very short-sighted. And if you look beneath the covers of, or in everyone's what's in everyone's head, you probably wouldn't want to go work for anyone else.
Ricky Baez:I was thinking it, Heather, I'm going to say it, but you're right.
Pete Newsome:So we have to get past that and so, yeah, I think you do want to put front and center. You anticipate the problem and then you have a way to counter it. So if you're that VP, we keep using this scenario that's now taking a staff level job, you need to address it and say you might wonder why I'm doing this. I would wonder if I were you, but here's why and here's my story. Yeah, you need to have a story. It needs to be real. It has to be something more than well. I'm waiting for something better to come along, because that just confirms their suspicion on the front end.
Ricky Baez:I love meeting, I love how you're like. It has to be real. Isn't it sad that we have to say that, pete, the story has folks? He's right, it's got to be a legit story right, because, just how everybody in this world has a BS meter right you do, I do and it's almost 95% calibrated. So you know, when somebody's telling you a story that's disingenuous, so other people will as well. You have to make sure the story is authentic and it's real and it makes sense for what you're looking to do.
Pete Newsome:Well, I've seen some posts on LinkedIn that lately I'm sure you have too of people who are feeling desperate right now and will make a post saying I'll take anything, it doesn't matter what it is. Well, it's not serving them well, because that is the opposite of what we're talking about right now. That just confirms the suspicion that someone says well, gosh, ricky's saying he'll take anything right now. Do I want to be his backup to the backup to the backup plan, knowing that the next time something good comes along when the market shifts a little bit, rick, you'll be gone. I mean, maybe if I hire you under those terms, but I'm going to know, or at least assume, that you're going to jump when you have the opportunity. And so if you're listening and you're a candidate who's put that kind of message out there, delete it. Yep Again.
Ricky Baez:No recruiter in their right mind who's recruiting for a permanent full-time position is ever going to reach out to anybody like that, unless it's to tell them don't communicate, don't put that out there. Oh, you know what? Maybe do put that out there, that way recruiters know who to interview, who not to interview.
Pete Newsome:Well, it's one of the strange things that's happening on LinkedIn right now is that gets so much attention when you put a message?
Pete Newsome:out to me, Naturally it's people who want to help each other. We want to lend a hand to those who need it the most, but at the same time, you have to show professional confidence and strength to some degree, not desperation, when you're looking for a job. Now, that's talked about a lot on LinkedIn these days. Right, we know that with the open to work banner, is that show desperation? And if so, is that okay? Is it bad? I don't really have much of an opinion on that. I mean, I could argue both sides of it, to be completely frank, because we know that sometimes managers will see that and think well, I'm more interested in a passive candidate. That's always been the case. It's not tied to a banner, it's just tied to recruiting in general, and so you don't want to create hurdles for yourself to overcome. I think that's the message that I'd like to deliver there.
Ricky Baez:No, I'm with you. It's a good message to send that way. People out there know exactly what kind of bait will attract that recruiter, but, at the same time, what a recruiter goes through, and you know a lot of. It's like going out to buy a car. A lot of people put a strategy together based on their own finances and don't put any type of thought into the strategy on what's in it for the dealer, right? So you've got to put on your hand of what's in it for the recruiter. How can I make this as easy for the recruiter as possible? And this is one of the best ways.
Ricky Baez:One of the things that you just said, pete, that I think it's crucial. If you think that your resume, your information, is going to come across and raise a red flag of overqualified, I address it head on. Don't tip toe around it. Exactly how you said. I like how you said it.
Ricky Baez:You're probably wondering why I'm interviewing and you're probably wondering why I'm willing to take a pay cut, or here's why, right, I've got a PS4 addiction to keep up with PlayStation 4. I couldn't think of a 5-1. It's okay, gta 6 is coming out. So, yeah, it's one of those things that you have to be aware, and you have to know your worth also. You have to know how much you're worth and how much of a cut you're willing to take. But Pete, this one's big, and I know you are a big fan of this. I'm a big fan of this too. Tap into your network If you believe that your information is going to come across, and raise that red flag. Try to find somebody who already works there, who knows who you are, who knows how you work, who is going to vouch for you. There is no better way for you to, as a recruiter, to assess somebody else's skill set and whether they're going to survive in an environment or not, unless somebody within the organization can vouch for you. So tap into your network. Always start working on those.
Pete Newsome:I'm glad you brought that up, because if you have that concern and you have to put yourself in the shoes of the person who's viewing your resume and be pragmatic, just because you know that it's what you want or what you need, you have to assume that the person is going to look for flaws. There's two things when you look at a resume, you look for good, you want to jump off the page that the person's a good fit, and you want to look for obvious red flags. That's what every recruiter does. Who's not looking for a resume for a position? That's a needle in a haystack. We're talking about most jobs these days. Get lots of applicants and so you look what are the ones that are just clearly qualified and the ones that have red flags. So that's just human nature and that's how it goes. If you don't have someone to use internally to share your message and I think that's great. Hey, ricky, I applied to this job at ABC company where you work. Would you mind being a reference for me, a personal reference? Call HR. Here's who the manager is. You should absolutely do that. Ricky may get a referral fee for doing it, who knows?
Pete Newsome:But I also highly recommend considering using a third party recruiter in these scenarios back to what we were talking about a few minutes ago. If you're applying directly for a job, you can't be nearly as aggressive as a recruiter can be. I'm not going to just send a resume over and sit back and wait. But if you are an applicant, you apply, you hope for the best and you wait. Third party recruiters don't do that. We pick up the phone, we find out who the manager is. We can be appropriately aggressive and persistent in doing that. So I would recommend any job seeker who's having trouble finding a job, who is experienced and worried that they're being deemed overqualified and that's one of the reasons they're not getting a lot of feedback or interview requests Partner with a third party recruiter who can be aggressive on your behalf. That's right.
Ricky Baez:It can be very effective, and we said this a couple of weeks ago. The reason a third party recruiter is the way to go is because that's what they do from the time they wake up to the time. They do that for a living, whereas for a regular organization, this is something they have to do in order to survive. This is what they do for a living, so leave it to the experts, let them take care of it and let them find a candidate for that position that's going to give you a good return on investment.
Pete Newsome:Even in. The last thing I want to say today is we're at the end of 2023, very tight job market for a lot of positions in the professional space. You have to consider supply and demand and take a pragmatic view there too, and answer the question for yourself first, how likely is it that you're going to be pulled out of the pile? How much is your resume going to jump out of the recruiters compared to the other 100, 200, 300 that they're considering? And then you may have to pivot on your approach, on what's realistic, what you're pursuing. I mean, I'm not trying to be doom and gloom with this, but it's not about my opinion and this is not a subjective thing. It's an objective data right now that indicates in some professions there are significantly more jobs than people. We know that on the other side of COVID, there's a lot of hiring I'm sorry, more people than jobs. There's a lot more jobs in positions.
Pete Newsome:I want to clarify it because for so much of the last couple of years we've talked about the opposite. That's true. I mean, a year and a half ago it was an employee's market. Some rare instances it is. It's simple supply and demand right now, and so if you're seeing that there's hundreds and hundreds of applicants for every job you think you're qualified for. It may be time to step back and consider a different route. That's a little bit of a different podcast, different episode, but we'd be remiss if we didn't bring it up because it's all part of the equation. I think a lot of recruiters right now, in particular space where I obviously operate, are looking for jobs right now and it's a saturated market. People are dealing with these considerations right now being overqualified or deemed overqualified. How do they deal with it? It's a time-sensitive conversation. There's not a lot of easy answers out there in some of the situations.
Ricky Baez:That's the best way to put it. There's not a lot of easy answers, but the answers are out there, even if they're not easy. I know these are tough pills to swallow, but look, these are the things you have to do. Again, unless you are the top 2 percent of any organization or any school, you really have to put some elbow greasing to get noticed. Then this is what happens. If you do get noticed, even then you still have some work to do because now you've got some potential red flags out there. Folks know your worth, know exactly what your point is in applying for a position. Again, as soon as a recruiter gets the idea or gets a feeling that you're just there for just a stepping stone until you get your next big thing, they're not going to continue on. Don't waste your time, just how you don't want them to waste your time. Know your worth, talk to the folks and just make sure what you're looking for. That's the best way. I can recap that, pete.
Pete Newsome:Yeah, and then be appropriately aggressive. Right, you're on your own or through a third party. Anticipate the challenge, anticipate the hesitancy that's going to come if you seem to be going after a job that's beneath your skill set or your experience or your compensation in the past. Just know it's human nature and that it can be overcome, but you have to tackle it head on. I think that's the best way I can close on this.
Ricky Baez:Can I just add one more thing to it? Just one more quick thing. If you find a recruiter that would tell you that, hey, you just overqualified. You're trying to explain yourself and they still hold on to that assessment Maybe you're overqualified, Walk away. Yes, there's something. There's a red flag there for you about the job environment you're about to walk into, so just walk away Again. That's not an easy answer to digest, especially if you need work A lot of people need work right now. But also just how they're interviewing you and watching you how you answer those questions, you should be doing the same with that, Absolutely.
Pete Newsome:All right, I think we're good. I think that's it. We'd love to hear from you Questions at zengeggcom. If you have questions for us on this topic or have other topics you'd like us to talk about, or hit us up on social media. We're pretty easy to find on zengegg, especially on our LinkedIn account. We're very active. So we'd love to hear back and take any suggestions and comments and we'll run with them and we'll do a Q&A here soon. I think we're due, ricky.
Ricky Baez:Yes sir, we definitely are. We must have like thousands in the bag waiting.
Pete Newsome:We do. I switched computers two weeks ago and I know they're piling up. I haven't even been deep into that email inbox. There's a few hundred things in there, okay.
Ricky Baez:Here's what we need to do, Pete, and this is for everybody to look forward to, and folks help me on on this, right what I'm about to say. I need you to email Pete, text some set of messages. We need to do this. I think we need to set up a Q&A session, but your address has Santa Claus and you're opening up the questions like a kid sends Santa Claus a letter. You have to do that Dress the Santa Claus, get the beard and we'll get all the questions and cards where you get to open them from your toy sack.
Pete Newsome:How's that? You're halfway there? Why am I dressing Santa Claus? You just have to keep that going and make it white.
Ricky Baez:You know what Boom? I'll do that. I'll be Santa Claus. There you go. See, I'm dressed like the elf anyway, you already dressed as the elf. You know what? I'll go on Amazon and get me a Santa Claus suit.
Pete Newsome:All right. Well, if we get enough, we'll do it. We'll figure it out. I like it. Great idea, ricky. Goodbye for now. Have a good one. Listen to everyone, bye, bye. Is that the door of this room?