finding career zen

From Rejection to Success: Job Hunting Strategies with Sam Brenner

• Pete Newsome • Episode 45

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Are you ready to step up your job search game? Well, our latest discussion with Sam Brenner from CRB Workforce promises to kick your career knowledge up a notch. You'll get a front-row seat to the insider's world of staffing and recruitment - a terrain where ethics are not only valued but vital. Sam opens up about the bumps he encountered on his professional journey, the lessons that made failure worthwhile, and how Jocko Willink's "Extreme Ownership" changed his career completely.

As we take a deep dive into CRB - a recruitment agency with a niche focus on entertainment, travel, hospitality, and ed tech, you'll see the devotion to delivering exceptional experiences for both clients and candidates. A thought-provoking reflection on the post-pandemic job market not only gives a rounded picture of the current employment landscape but also emphasizes the enduring importance of treating people right in the service industry.

Now, if you're a job seeker, pay close attention to the strategies we discuss. We share practical advice on crafting a compelling email template, identifying your 'dream' employers, and leveraging the power of networking. Taking a proactive approach to your job search may seem daunting at first, but with our tips, you'll be well on your way to landing that dream job. We address common slip-ups during the application process and provide solutions to help you stand out in a saturated job market.

So, tune in, get inspired, and take your career into your own hands.

Job Hunting Strategies:
1. Tailored Resumes and Cover Letters: Customize your resume and cover letter for each application to highlight relevant skills and experiences.
2. Networking: Leverage professional networks, attend industry events, and use platforms like LinkedIn to connect with potential employers and industry peers.
3. Recruitment Agencies and Headhunters: Connect with agencies that specialize in your field; they can often provide access to unadvertised vacancies.
4. Follow-Up Communications: Send polite follow-up emails to reiterate your interest after submitting applications or completing interviews.
5. Company Research: Thoroughly research companies before applying or interviewing to tailor your approach and show genuine interest.
6. Prepare for Interviews: Practice common interview questions, prepare examples of your work, and be ready to discuss how you can contribute to the company.
7. Stay Organized and Persistent: Keep track of applications, follow-ups, and network contacts. Persistence is key in a competitive job market.


Additional Resources:

🧠 WANT TO LEARN MORE? Be sure to subscribe and check out https://zengig.com/

👋 FOLLOW PETE NEWSOME ONLINE:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petenewsome/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PeteNewsome
Blog Articles: https://www.4cornerresources.com/blog/

👋 FOLLOW SAM BRENNER ONLINE:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sambrenner007/
Website: https://crbworkforce.com/

Pete Newsome:

You're listening to the Finding Careers Zen Podcast. I'm Pete Newsome and my guest today is Sam Brenner from CRB Workforce. Sam, how are you today?

Sam Brenner:

Doing well. Thanks for having me, Pete.

Pete Newsome:

Thanks so much. You're based in LA. How is it out there today?

Sam Brenner:

It's. I don't know if everyone would agree with me, but it's pretty chilly. I think it's like low 70s, so I'm cold. I think other people might enjoy it.

Pete Newsome:

You're talking to a Florida guy who's wearing a flannel shirt and it's. You know, the rest of the world would be in shorts and a T-shirt right now. So I'm with you, exactly. I'm with you for sure. Well, thanks so much. You're the founder and CEO of CRB Workforce. Why don't you start? If you wouldn't mind? Just let us know. How'd you get into staffing in the first place?

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, I don't think it's a unique answer. I think, like 99% of everyone else in staffing, I kind of fell into it. I was in commercial real estate beforehand and had a bizarre specialty in representing staffing agencies. I was doing office leasing, so I had a bunch of experience with the industry from that standpoint. And you know, I had moved to Barcelona at some point with my wife. I quit commercial real estate and when we moved back to Orange County it was like what am I going to do? And one of my buddies who owned a staffing agency was telling me you got to try this out, it's an interesting industry. And so we kind of made an agreement. It's like 30 days either you know you're good at it, you like it and you stick around, or you're terrible, you don't like it and you take a hike. And so you know I think it was two weeks in and I was like this is great.

Pete Newsome:

I love this.

Sam Brenner:

And it's kind of how I got into it. I spent five years with him and his agency and then opened up my own in 2008, 2018.

Pete Newsome:

I think in sales and recruiting you either have it a knack for it or you don't. I like the 30 days. It's probably not going to turn around if you don't, but if you do and you're a natural then it's a great place to be.

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool, just the idea of like help. Like I didn't go into it with an altruistic approach like, oh, I want to save the world and give people jobs.

Pete Newsome:

It was.

Sam Brenner:

It's a sales job and I knew that and that was what was motivating me. But I thought it was really cool because historically, all I had done was match office tenants with office buildings and that never felt good, you know. And so now here I was, like actually getting someone a job and it was pretty cool. Now there's all the downsides of it too, but there was that element that was pretty neat too.

Pete Newsome:

Well, I've said a lot over the years that we are in business to make money and I want to apologize for that. However, you're not going to succeed in this space unless you're honest, ethical, diligent. You have to do things all the right way so everyone wins. You can't it's when clients win, otherwise you're not going to last very long at all.

Sam Brenner:

A hundred percent. You know the downside to working with people and feeling that upside of seeing someone you know land an exciting job or whatever it is, the downside is that you get let down. Also, and that was the hardest part when my business started taking off, was like navigating. You know the month long process with a candidate or a client where everyone's telling you one thing you're bought in like you know, okay, you've got the deal, like you feel good about it, there's a commission, but then you know their start date comes and they ghost you right, or the client pulls the offer on the weekend before the start day. I mean, both sides can do it to you. And that was the toughest part was like was navigating that disappointment from people, because I know it, I know it.

Pete Newsome:

I'll do well. My first when I started Four Corner Resources, my first placement I remember it was such an exciting day. It was this junior architect and I was working at home and I went to check my computer. I was dressed up and had a tie on a regular Walk-A-Mend for his first day. I checked my email and he backed out the morning of the job with some ridiculous excuse, never heard from him again and I had to go and show up for my brand new client.

Pete Newsome:

My company was a month old at the time and laid us all out, but in a way it was the best thing that could have happened to me, because I realized then you know, I'd worked for someone else before and I'd been away from staffing for 10 years prior to starting Four Corner, and I said okay, this is a whole different deal. It's my fault, I didn't qualify this person well enough. There were red flags that I didn't see, and so over the years, when we have recruiters who have early success, they get a placement right off the bat, like in their first week, or they fill a hard position early on. That's almost a bad sign for me, because they think it's easier than it is and we know better.

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, yeah, well we're. I think we deal with that right now coming post pandemic market right, like everyone saw. Most people saw 2020, 2021, 2022, like extreme highs and 2023 has been tough and you have to, really you know, look at your process and I teach that all the time that my favorite book about that is um Jocko Willings extreme ownership.

Sam Brenner:

and Every single time somebody fails in some capacity, ken, it doesn't start. Whatever that surprise is, they're like it's not my fault and it's like it's always your fault and and that's not a bad thing it's just make it your fault and get better you know like well we want.

Pete Newsome:

We don't learn from our wins. We, you know anyone in sales or recruiting for any period of time knows that it's no fun to look at those losses and to understand why. But, to your point, there's always something right. There was, yeah, there was a pause, there was a callback that didn't come when it was supposed to. There was, you know, an excuse for something right. We all know the excuses, right, sick kids, car trouble, dead grandparents, like we know, and, and you, you can, you want to give people the benefit of the doubt and Unfortunately, in our business, as we learn, we have to be very skeptical of new clients, right, it's like guilty until proven, innocent almost and new candidates.

Pete Newsome:

But that's what makes it good, because we address all the bad up front and we look for the problems right. Everyone, everyone, new in this business. You know they want to look for the good right, but but they're, they could do the job, they maybe they'll be in, except the offer. You want to find as close to a perfect match as you can and that means a process of elimination that's pretty strict.

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, and it's pretty neat when you find the client that is giving you all those green flags and the candidates that it are fully engaged and you start making those matches right, Like that's when it gets fun.

Pete Newsome:

It's like a any relationship right when it's easy and it's good, it just flows way. Or I've often used the analogy there's a road, the main road that goes through downtown Orlando and I know you come to hear a lot Is Orange Avenue. And I said if you're on Orange Avenue and it's green lights the whole way, that's, that's what you're gonna stop a light every, every, every block. It's not a good. It's not a good thing.

Sam Brenner:

Yeah.

Pete Newsome:

Yeah so. So tell me, how did tell me about CRB a little bit. What's your specialty? What do you guys focus on?

Sam Brenner:

Um, yeah, so we really have three general areas. Um, at a high level, just kind of break out general areas we do permanent, um placement, executive level, and then the bulk of our business is in the consulting or contracting services, um the. The industries that we typically work with are, um entertainment uh, so anything from content distribution to, um you know, experiences uh in the entertainment space, um, that's really one segment, entertainment and travel and hospitality.

Pete Newsome:

Uh is another segment.

Sam Brenner:

We do a lot of um, you know, say, destination type stuff, um, you know it's all of the roles that we're placing our it, engineering or marketing. But in those industries entertainment, travel and hospitality, like cruise lines, things like that Um. And then ed tech is a really high growing segment of our business right now, um, and primarily in, like the online education space. So Um, like university of phoenix is not a customer if they're listening, we want you to be a customer, but um, but someone like that Um, where they're providing an online educational experience.

Pete Newsome:

That's big, that's booming right and it started yeah, it was already growing. And then kind of it just just made it blow up even bigger, and it makes sense, right, I mean we have a virtual World now, and that's that's only going to increase, I think so that's a, that's a great place to to be. And now there's a lot of competition and staffing. We know that. What differentiates serb workforce. Well, what, what do you, what do you leverage that allows you to um to be competitive in the market?

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, that's another one of those questions I feel like is similar to you. Know how I got in to recruiting? I mean, I think at a high level. Right, I am not oblivious, there's. There's not a whole lot that differentiates us from another. They're really good recruiting agency there's a there's a lot from a bad recruiting agency.

Sam Brenner:

But, but you know, seriously, a great recruiting team is a great recruiting team and and and. We have the processes, we have the network, we have, um, you know, really cool tech, cool tech stack that helps our recruiters and helps our clients and and um and candidates. But, you know, our biggest value add is the experience that our clients and candidates, um, and my internal team, um experiences. I think it's the way that I built the company, in the way that I teach the team to treat our customers and candidates is a lot like Amazon's philosophy or Starbucks philosophy. Um, you know, for Starbucks people, you know they go into a Starbucks because of the consistency, right, they they want their toffin at latte. Um, you know the exact same way and they know what to expect. They go in there, they get it and and you know, they, they have that level of consistency for Amazon, it's customer service.

Sam Brenner:

You buy something on Uh prime and it doesn't fit, there's no questions asked. You just return it. Right it's. It's that same level of service, the same exact toffin at latte um, and you know, to me that's that's really more important than than anything. Our customers, um, really rarely leave us once they experience our process. They work with us Um, they, they don't leave us. Uh, we'll compete with anyone head to head on Access to the talent, right, but they, they stick with us because they know they're the candidates that go through our process, had a great experience. They know that they always can count on us to deliver um. And so you know, I think at the end of the day, you know our belief is just that our job is to support the customer, support candidate, and you know, just never getting away the business and you know again, it's not something that we can put on a website and say, hey, here's a value add, why it makes us different.

Sam Brenner:

But given that one chance um, you know, I think, I think customers, candidates, feel that that difference in experience.

Pete Newsome:

I love that answer really because and that's probably why you and I Hit it off so well the first time we connected because it's very similar to the answer I would give where there's almost two categories of staffing companies or right the ones I respect Because they're thorough and diligent and honest and consistent, and then there's the you know, the other right the other.

Pete Newsome:

Yeah, they cut corners. They, they'll, they'll, you know, do something, you know they'll benefit them today. That won't pay dividends over time, and that's just a. You can't succeed over time doing that, but there's a lot of players that will go down that road and, um, you know, providing that consistent experience is. I mean, I couldn't have said any better myself. So I really appreciate that answer. And no, no surprise, you're successful because of that, because In a service business, you know, we, we all have the same product right.

Pete Newsome:

Yeah, can it pull, is everyone. Um we all kind of have the same tools and access to the same resources, so it's about what you do with them and that's such an individual thing and um so. I really, I really appreciate that answer for sure.

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, well, you know, hopefully, uh, hopefully, it keeps paying dividends. I I think you said it right you do the right thing and and and I say this to the team all the time Good things happen to good people. So just be a good person, do the right thing and good things will happen.

Pete Newsome:

Absolutely, absolutely. So, speaking of good people, there's a lot of good people out in the market right now, uh, unintentionally, looking for a job right. There's no uh choice of their own, no fault of their own. Big layoffs have happened In a space where you operate and we Operate as well in it. A lot of professional level jobs. So I think, as you go down, yeah, the the chain, I pay a close attention, as I'm sure you do, to the labor data and it sort of sends a false signal Right now, when you see what BLS is reporting low unemployment, lots of job openings, you know, historical highs in job right. Other jobs no one wants right the end, and they're not professional level jobs for sure, because that market. My perspective, then I guess I should, you know, want to hear your opinion is that it's a, it's a it's, it's no longer an employee's market.

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, yeah it's. I mean you nailed it right. What is it? 3.9% right now in employment, right, and it's like all time low, right, Like cool. I mean that's great for the market, right. We're coming up in an election year, so I think you know interest rates are gonna start going down, unemployment's gonna go down and you know all of that is fairly unrelated to our industry and so you know, I don't know my thoughts on the industry and the current job market. It's like it's like there is a massive oversupply of candidates and there is a massive under demand for those professional level candidates.

Sam Brenner:

And I think the interesting part to the unemployment rate that doesn't really take into. It's not being taken into account is they're not accounting for people who are not actively looking for jobs, and I think that's one element in the tech sector that's interesting, because all of these I don't even know a couple hundred thousand people that have been laid off are getting severance and they're not actively looking for jobs, and then there's a bunch of people that just don't want a job right now.

Sam Brenner:

Maybe they banked so much money during COVID level compensation levels that they're traveling the world, I mean, you know it's so I bet unemployment's probably closer to five, six, seven percent when you load all those people back in, which is still, you know, not terrible.

Sam Brenner:

But I think I was looking at the numbers the other day and I think we as an industry, the tech industry, we reduced overall positions like net 2,500 last month and which was really interesting, and I think what that was was that was like number of postings that were taken down, and it's not a direct indicator of them being filled, because you're seeing a lot of them be cycled back. And so I think what is happening is you have the employers who are saying what you said it is now an employer-driven market, right? Their compensation expectations are in line with what they're seeing. People accept offers at what they're willing to offer. They're reducing their costs, they're trying to keep more jobs, reduce the overall cost of that job, but the candidates are not there yet. They haven't reduced their salary expectation, and so that's the major disconnect. That paradigm has to shift, otherwise it's just gonna be, they're just gonna be budding heads over and over.

Pete Newsome:

Well, it's really hard for individuals to go backwards, and we saw the pendulum swing so far post-COVID in favor of employees in so many different professions, recruiting probably being as yeah, I have a big example as we could come up with and the salaries just grew unnaturally right, and I tend to refer to those kind of things as unnatural acts that take place. If you're six months into recruiting, you probably shouldn't expect a $100,000-based salary to work virtually right. It's great if you can get it. Don't get me wrong, but that was supply and demand, and the supply was in the favor of the employees at the time. Now it's going the other way.

Pete Newsome:

The demand is I would just say it's back to normal, almost. I don't think it's at a subpar level as much, maybe a little bit right now. I mean, we're coming into the holiday season. Hiring slows down this time of year. We know that. But it's a problem though, right, I mean you and I aren't gonna solve that. The market is reacting. We can't blame employers for doing what's best for their businesses, but we still wanna be able to help the employees, right. I think part of helping them is setting realistic expectations. That's not fun to talk about.

Pete Newsome:

But look, I have young children in their early 20s. I'm always straight with them and sometimes it's not what they want to hear, but you have to adapt to whatever the market it has going on at that time. So let's talk about, but we wanna help people, right? So to start with some general advice, I mean you and I, I know you get approached by people who aren't used to looking for a job. Where do they start?

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, well I'm. There's a handful of different places to start, but you made a really interesting point about the recent grads and their expectation and that generation and I think that that's a big segment to what's driving the false confidence in where compensation levels could be.

Sam Brenner:

All of these kids came out of university with computer science degrees and instantly we're getting hired by Fang companies for 150 base plus bonus and they're looking at 200k comp and so they're competing with. Their expectation is 150k minimum. And then you have someone with 10 plus years who also wants 150k because they actually have established their life at 150k and they know that they're worth that, and so they're having a hard time competing with the 1% level of candidates, as with 10 years experience as well. And so here you are recent grad, or maybe you've had one or two jobs and the market was great and you're applying to jobs like what do you do? Now it's a totally different market. You're an active job seeker and so a lot of people do ask me what do you do?

Sam Brenner:

I mean, obviously, work with a recruiter, right, like that's step one. But a lot of times recruiters work for customers, work for the client. It's like a home buyer, a listing agent. The goal is to find the listing and then the buyers come. Right. Then you go find the buyer.

Sam Brenner:

So it's the same thing in recruiting so, at the end of the day, a job. If you're looking for a new job, you're going to have to be proactive. You're going to have to do everything all the time. It's going to have to be your job to find your new job you have to put in eight hours every day. You have to have a schedule all the standard things right, but none of that's unique. The unique thing that maybe I could offer is offering our business development process to a candidate.

Sam Brenner:

So, for example, first thing you want to do, is build an email with your resume attached and a couple of bullet points about yourself. Really simple stuff, generic, why you're an expert. Build that email template, have it ready to go. That's kind of step one. Step two is build a list of your ideal jobs, like the actual job postings. Go online, build a list of the job postings or companies that you want to work for.

Sam Brenner:

Stay away from the Googles, the Amazons, the Facebooks. They're too big for this process. If you want to apply to them, you have to start reaching out to their talent acquisition people. This process is for, say, 250 employee company or less. So build your list of companies, build your template for the email and then get online then and pull up the company that you're prospecting. Let's call it company XYZ. Go online then, pull up company XYZ and then look at their employees. There's a really simple button that says view employees or let's say it's 200 and 250 employees. You click on that and it pulls up the list. Look at the job description. Sometimes the job description will say who the role reports to If it does, if it says this role reports to the VP of engineering.

Sam Brenner:

Well, you're on LinkedIn. You're looking at the people who work there. Find the VP of engineering. That's very simple. You've identified who the VP of engineering is, who that job reports to you, have your template of why you're an awesome candidate and now you've got to email them. Well, how do you find their email? Well, you can buy a tool that shows you emails, but really simple way is to go to Google and type in look at their website. So let's say it's xyzcom. That's their website wwwxyzcom.

Sam Brenner:

Take xyzcom, go to Google, put a quote, type the app sign for like an app Gmail. Type the app sign, paste in xyzcom, end quote and then write the words and email and press enter. You'll see. It'll show you what that email should be. You just look through the first page of results. You don't have to click into anything, just kind of look and see. Do you see anything? Do you see JohnSmith? You'll see. Okay, the email is firstnamelastnameatxyzcom.

Sam Brenner:

All right, we've got the format. Go to your email, paste it in, click send. Go to LinkedIn connect with them. Hopefully they connect when they do follow up and you take that process and you multiply it across the 10, 20 top positions and if you don't get a response from the VP, go down the level, go to directors, go to the CTO. If you believe you're a fit, then pursue it like it's your job and I know I just kind of went on a big ramble, but I love it.

Pete Newsome:

I was a masterclass, right. I mean that, yeah, no, that was absolutely perfect and I know that that is would be effective. You'd get results. I believe that very few people do it and very few people will hear that advice and take, and so if you're one of those few, know that it's rare air. You're not going to have a whole lot of competition doing it, and you really laid it out very, very, very clearly and you know it's, it is your job. I mean, that's that's the message. Right, Treat it like your job. Treat it like a business development effort. You're the product, Exactly.

Sam Brenner:

Well, I'll I'll I'll tell this story. It's really funny, and I'll tell it on the simple hope that that my, my wife's boss doesn't hear this. But don't worry our following is not that big, exactly. Well, she works for Netflix and she wanted to work for Netflix like that. She absolutely wanted to work for Netflix. And so five and a half, six years ago, whenever she got hired, you know, she sent me this job link and she's like this is the perfect job for me. I have to have this job.

Sam Brenner:

And so she applies and nothing happens. Right, and which is standard, right, Everyone's experience. You apply, nothing happens. You're one of a thousand, so maybe two three, four thousand right Exactly, Probably.

Sam Brenner:

So I was like all right, you know what I'm going to do, this process, exact process I just laid out, and so I got into her email, into her LinkedIn, and I just went like full business development mode. I hit up every single talent acquisition person that I thought had a relation to that job, anyone that could be a manager, and, and so she goes. She ends up getting you know, a call back from one of the talent acquisition people, and, and she goes through the process and she gets hired because she truly was a perfect fit for it.

Sam Brenner:

And on our first day or first week, someone like meets her from the talent team and they're like, oh, you're that crazy one that emailed and LinkedIn messaged us. And she's like, yeah, you know she didn't want to say it was me, but but they still talk about it and they're like we would have never seen your resume had you not done that. And that was awesome.

Pete Newsome:

So great. I mean, what a perfect story. And employers, recruiters, like we talked about a few minutes ago, we worry about candidates not accepting openings, backing out, ghosting us, right? I mean, that goes both ways. As you said, we love candidates who show interest and drive and motivation. That makes our lives so much easier. And it doesn't mean that you're going to have 100% success rate. Of course you're not, of course, as a candidate, but it's going to increase your odds of success so drastically. And it's a difference between a shotgun and a rifle approach. Where you're going to go, aim at your target is what you're saying, right, go, take aim and then do everything you can to hit that target. I love it.

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, well, you know another thing that that I've seen quite a bit. I don't I don't see it so much anymore, just in my role, but when I was on the desk, a lot of the candidates that I worked with, you know, were friends or just people that I had always kept in touch with, and what I would tell them is you know, hey look, all I need from you is an email every day of jobs that you think you're a good fit for, and then I'll do that, all that work Like it's that's a standard recruiting business development process to generate job orders right and so we have more capabilities as recruiters to build those lists, to get those emails, to send things out in mass, and so I would tell them look you, look at night send me the jobs

Sam Brenner:

that you think you're a good fit for. I'll build a list, I'll send your resume to all the right people, and so it was beneficial to me. I got a lot of business that way and it was beneficial to them. They didn't have to be that account manager, they didn't have to learn that process. So if you partner with a really good recruiter that you can count on to send your resume out, you know that that will work in in a good symbiotic relationship with a good recruiter and a candidate that isn't also going online and apply.

Pete Newsome:

So we call that skill marketing. What do you call that? That process?

Sam Brenner:

We call it MPC and most placeable candidate.

Pete Newsome:

Most placeable candidate, right? Okay, yeah, explain for a second, because that's good. That's a foreign concept to most job seekers. They're not. They don't understand that, but it's. It's interesting you would bring it up today. Someone sent me a message on LinkedIn yesterday, replied to one of my posts and said how come recruiters never do that anymore? Back when I was recruiting, we used to proactively send candidates and I said they do, we do, you sound like you do, your team does.

Pete Newsome:

Oh yeah, explain why letting a recruiter go through that effort and present you is better than you presenting yourself, and I want to. I'm sure your answer is going to be the same one I would give.

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, I mean. I think the simplest answer is look at the situation with my wife. She applied and she was in a sea of 1000 others when you know she was the MPC, when she candidate, marketing herself and she is proxy or however it is. That's when the results happen. You're dealing with a person, you're you're reaching out to a company with an active need you're get, you're providing the solution to their problem, as opposed to just being an applicant. That's I don't know. I mean, I'm not sure if that's the right answer, but where I was going with it is.

Pete Newsome:

I like so. So, first of all, most candidates aren't going to be that bold and aggressive. We know that, yeah, but we as a third party can be more aggressive. You on someone's behalf, right, we can, we can, we can, push, we can. It's not going to be a bad word. Maybe it may poorly reflect on us if we push too hard.

Pete Newsome:

But, candidate, it has to be a little more sensitive and careful. You're not going to be that bold and aggressive in your follow up. So that's one of the reasons why. Look, everyone should do it on their own. And, make no mistake, not every recruiter is going to be willing to do that, not because they don't want to, they just don't have the time to do it. Recruiters, as you mentioned earlier, we're driven by the demands of our clients. That's who pays our bills. So 90 plus percent of our time is spent finding people for jobs, not jobs for people, and that's a big distinction for someone from the outside looking in who thinks, yeah, yeah, hey, you help people find jobs we do, but that's not the order of things usually. But if you're a candidate who's willing to do the work for the recruiter exactly Like that, make it easy for them. I think that's amazing advice.

Pete Newsome:

Yeah, I'm really glad you brought it up. I didn't. I didn't know you were going to mention that. I'm glad you did.

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, yeah, I mean that's that sense and the job postings that you're interested in to the recruiter that you know, and they'll do that's the hard part is finding the jobs.

Pete Newsome:

It takes time, right, but you're competing. You want to shift the odds into your favor. As we talked about a few minutes ago. This one click apply thing is just creating a nightmare for candidates and recruiters.

Sam Brenner:

Because I saw I started a job. I saw this post on LinkedIn. It was the most bizarre thing. This guy had created a tool to where he clicks one button and it submits his resume to 200 different like sites and are 200 different jobs, whatever it was, and he was like advertising it. And there you have like the candidates who are like, oh my gosh, this is amazing, like I give me access. And then you have the companies like if you are ruining everyone's chance at getting a job, you're just blowing up the whole system.

Pete Newsome:

And I proposed up a couple weeks ago after seeing a lot of career coaches right, I'm using air quotes. Yeah, telling candidates apply to every job even if you're not qualifying for it. Okay, yeah, you're not going to get it. All you're doing is making it worse for everyone else and even worse you're the recruiter is not going to. They're going to throw you in the garbage because not you. They're going to throw you in the garbage because you've now wasted their time and you've shown no respect for their process and it it recruiters get a bad knock. We know that a lot of times. It's deserved, we know that too, but it is impractical for someone to sort through 1000 resumes when nine out of 10 of them aren't even close to being qualified.

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, well, and that's why this process, whether you do it on your, I mean. I always if if you're a candidate and you're listening, do it on your own. Like certainly work with a recruiter and they'll and they'll candidate market you if, if it's the right thing, but if you do it on the on your own, then you will walk away in a better position than the 1000 easy apply candidates. All of those are waiting for someone to go into the system and review their resume. Are you going?

Sam Brenner:

to be one of the 1000, or are you going to be the one that's in their inbox on a Monday morning, on a Tuesday morning? And that's the differentiator.

Pete Newsome:

That's it. There's not a recruiter on the planet who doesn't want to find open their inbox and see the perfect candidate that's sitting.

Sam Brenner:

That's gold. Oh man, oh man.

Pete Newsome:

Sounds good. Well, all right. So that's that's. You've given some gold. You know golden advice extremely valuable, but what about things to avoid? Is there any? Are there any mistakes that you see that are commonly made? Maybe, maybe you don't, but is there anything that you'd want to say to a, an unintentional job seeker? I don't know why I'm using that phrase, but someone who hasn't done it a lot, who maybe thinks this is how I used to do it, is just what. Are there any common mistakes you see?

Sam Brenner:

Um, well, yeah, I think the biggest one that I would say is like not speaking your mind. I think like if, the minute you get into the process I'm sure there's a lot of mistakes in like overall process, like just clicking easy, like don't do that, that's that, you can do more. But let's say you're in the process and let's say you get an offer and it's 10,000 less than what you had said. The biggest mistake that I see is candidates taking offense to a process thing, whether it's an offer or an extra step in the process. Maybe they want to re-verify your tech skills or they want you to do a project Like I get it. That can hurt the ego sometimes, but if you like the company, like the job, then do it. If it's 10k less than what you are expecting, make a counter Like.

Sam Brenner:

The biggest mistake I see is people walking away from the table without making a counter. The counter can be money. The counter can be hey, I'm not doing that tech assessment. I sat in a four-hour paired coding session or I did a case study. Whatever it is just counter in whatever capacity that means in that situation. But use your voice, speak up and offer your position. If the company offers their position, whether it's a low ball. Offer anything, offer your position. Don't just walk away due to ego or any other reason. What I think you find is that if you avoid that mistake, there's generally a middle ground or, even more likely, they'll end up coming to where you want them to be, to where you need them to be in order to be excited about the job. If you're that far in the process. They like you, they want you, and companies have an obligation to do some of their processes sometimes. So push back, give them the opportunity to come to where you need them. But they won't know that unless you speak up and you tell them what you need.

Pete Newsome:

It's a really important thing for people to understand. It's hard when you aren't in the middle. We get to see both sides of it. We understand that companies in many cases are not great at making decisions. Someone who initially gets involved later and has their own opinions and no one in the audience to have a bad interview process or a hiring process.

Pete Newsome:

We know that no one intends to offend anyone, certainly no one intends to chase off a good candidate, but all of these things can happen inadvertently. So the advice of don't take it personally, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater so something happens. Be assertive, apply logic, use your voice, just like you said. That's a perfect way to put it. At the end of the day, people are people, work with people. Look at them as a human. Don't look at the. You see it online. It's easy to knock employers. It's like the Death Star out there, like the big bad employer. It's just people trying to get through their day.

Sam Brenner:

Exactly, exactly.

Pete Newsome:

To do a bad job. I worked for two big companies. Trust me, they were both a cluster, but not because of the individuals, just because the nature of big things don't operate smoothly and fluidly. I mean, that's my take.

Sam Brenner:

Yeah, I'm with you. I was in Not for me, but for someone else. I was in a hospital recently and we were trying to figure out like is this doctor? We were in the emergency room, and so it was important that we decided if the doctor's advice was the right advice.

Sam Brenner:

Because it was like surgery or no surgery, and so it's a pretty big decision to make Exactly, and so you have this doctor who's, like you know, an expert in neurosurgery, and they're telling you what to do and their opinion, and I had this realization as I'm sitting there and I just didn't like him. He just had this bad.

Sam Brenner:

Something about it I didn't like, and the person I was helping was, you know, they wanted advice, they didn't want to be there by themselves. And so I'm looking at him and I had this realization. I'm like this is just some guy who was a kid in school that decided to go get a medical degree. Like I got a bachelor's in management and HR. He went and got a medical degree and his job that he goes to every day is this, and you know, he's not the patron saint of decisions. And so, like you know, they're just people, these doctors and lawyers, like they're all just kids who grew up to have a job, and so it was really interesting. I had that realization. I'm like you think of a doctor and you're like, oh, this guy's genius, right, but it's like are they, or are they just a guy who has a job?

Sam Brenner:

He's the dude who ended up in that job.

Pete Newsome:

You know, listen, he's probably intelligent, I've said to work hard to get there, but look at how many mistakes you make You're great at what you do.

Sam Brenner:

You make mistakes.

Pete Newsome:

I've been pretty good at what I do. I've been doing it for a long time. I make mistakes every day. And that's just part of the deal, and so I think for candidates who do get upset right you see it online. You have people get so offended at what they're asked to do it doesn't mean you have to do it Right.

Sam Brenner:

Right, say no Give a killer, give another option. Exactly, exactly, great, that's great stuff, sam.

Pete Newsome:

I mean, this has been gold on three different points and we're going to recap that in the show notes. But as far as how you go about contacting people, working to be proactive in contacting them, sending your information over doing what the masses won't do, and then just being a human and communicating and understanding that people will make mistakes, I mean, if you can do those things, you're going to be way ahead of the curve.

Sam Brenner:

You won't be unemployed if you're unemployed right now. That's for sure.

Pete Newsome:

I love it. Well, with that I think we can wrap up, and I want to thank you again for being so generous with your time today and sharing this great advice, and for anyone listening. We'd love to hear from you, so please follow us and share questions at zengig. com. We'd love to know what's on your mind. And Sam, thanks again, love it.

Sam Brenner:

Thanks, Pete.

Pete Newsome:

Have a great rest of the day All right. Thank you.