finding career zen
Stories and interviews highlighting the unique challenges, failures, and successes encountered on the path to achieving career zen.
finding career zen
Career Generalist vs. Specialist: Pros and Cons
In this engaging episode of “At Work With Gen XYZ,” we dive into a thought-provoking discussion revolving around two career paths - being a generalist or a specialist. Get ready for a cross-generational conversation, where our distinguished panelists – Pete, Peter, and Ashley – represent the voices of Generations X, Y, and Z, respectively, each presenting their unique perspectives on career specialization and generalization.
Episode Highlights:
- Deep Dive with Pete: Understand the nuances of career specialization through Pete’s journey, learning the value of becoming an expert in a chosen field.
- Versatility with Peter: Discover the generalist path with Peter, exploring how a broad skill set can open doors to varied opportunities and provide a safety net in uncertain times.
- Innovation with Ashley: Witness the fusion of both worlds through Ashley’s eyes, understanding how Generation Z is navigating and redefining career trajectories with a blend of specialization and generalization.
After another session with technical difficulties. Our Gen X is slowly trying to figure it out, but let's.
Peter (Gen Y):He's merging into the 21st century here from his dialogue action Wow this is.
Pete (Gen X):Can you guys hear me like you should, Because otherwise I'm pretty defenseless in this scenario.
Peter (Gen Y):I mean it depends on how much of a lag there is. I don't think there is.
Pete (Gen X):All right. Well, we won't call out our local internet provider on this, but here we are, we're good, we are live, and apparently my voice is matching my image for the moment, so that's a good thing. So, peter, you want to do introductions, since you were gone last week?
Peter (Gen Y):Yeah, perfect. So welcome to Gen XYZ. It's obviously this is a show about me, the millennial. I'm Gen Y and yeah, so there's the introduction there. Yeah, so I am the millennial of the group.
Ashley (Gen Z):I am Gen Z, I'm Ashley.
Pete (Gen X):I'm Pete, I'm Gen X, and they are thinking that I'm the old guy always, but in particular today, because my internet connection is not working and so by default, they think it's a problem I'm having with technology, which it most certainly is not.
Peter (Gen Y):He's just doing a retro JPEG thing Like he's like hey, I'm trying to bring back the 90s and GeoCities, cities, websites and whatnot.
Ashley (Gen Z):He's on a really old Mac computer that has like some blocks in the back.
Peter (Gen Y):The clear back computer is the iMacs, no.
Pete (Gen X):You know I saw posts this morning that that came out 25 years ago today, or not today, but 25 years ago now, because Google just turned 25. And that's when that Mac with the colored background came out.
Peter (Gen Y):That's crazy. Those were like all the rage in the early 2000s, like that was the cool thing cool kids had.
Pete (Gen X):Cool kids, so I'll switch to my phone if this isn't good. If you're joining us, thank you. Thanks for bearing with us today. Technology is always fun, especially when it's live, but we have a few topics we want to talk about today, but, as always, we will stop. We will address questions or comments. If you guys have anything you'd like us to discuss, debate, fight about that, can we like doing all of that?
Pete (Gen X):But the point of our show each week is to talk about generational differences. We try to keep it relevant to the workplace. Sometimes we get a little off track, so can I just get off track to start behind? Why not Go ahead?
Pete (Gen X):So I was on a podcast. I was a guest on a podcast earlier this week and we were talking about interviews and how to follow up with them and specifically, we talked about handwritten notes, something that you guys know I'm a big believer in. I think candidates should take advantage of. Very few do it stands out. It is a great differentiator in a very crowded space.
Pete (Gen X):Right now, the job market is super crowded for professional jobs and if you're watching on LinkedIn right now, you know that all too well. Jobs regularly get more than 1,000 applicants within a day of being posted. It's crazy. I've never seen anything like it, and so a lot of candidates want to know how do I stand out? What can I do? That's different than the pack and handwritten note is special, so I was thinking about this in anticipation of our show. You guys sort of missed the window on that. Right Like when I graduated from college my now wife was still in college we would write letters to each other, we'd write notes, send cards. You guys never do that. Right Like it's not. Have you ever sent anyone a card in the mail, ashley?
Ashley (Gen Z):Maybe like postcard. I think that's it.
Peter (Gen Y):It's like for the novel to happen.
Ashley (Gen Z):Yeah, just, I think I sent something to my cousin once, and that was it, and then we just Do you know what stamps are?
Pete (Gen X):Yes, but really like handwritten notes, peter, what about you? Did you ever send letters?
Peter (Gen Y):Not because I had to. I mean, I have sent, I have sent letters, I have done, but it's been more for like the novelty of it than like necessity of it. Like I've typed a letter on a typewriter and mailed it, but it was more to like do it because it was like oh look, this crazy ancient technology I'm like using, rather than like necessity of like I'm just sending you a letter.
Ashley (Gen Z):I was just feeling quirky one day and I was like, let me do this little cute thing and send this postcard to my cousin. Post office line was not long. There was a bunch of old people in line and I was the only young person in there.
Pete (Gen X):Right, so so here's OK. So you said it's a novelty thing. I occasionally will get a handwritten note, a card. It doesn't have to be fancy, and what's different about it than the hundreds and hundreds of emails that I may get in a given day, most which are spam. It's meaningful, I know there was effort involved. It's different and, for reasons I can't explain, I have a difficult time throwing out a card that someone sends me. I will keep it around and, peter, you probably remember seeing cards on my desk that I received from salespeople, or can it to?
Peter (Gen Y):I would get them to it. Yeah, and you're like I'm like this is some random guy. Like I don't even know who this person is, why can't I throw this card? Because I feel bad, like somehow he's going to have his feelings hurt that I threw out his card.
Pete (Gen X):Yeah, and I think that's why people keep them. I mean, my wife was looking through old, old cards the other day, and that's one of the reasons. This was on my mind too, and I thought my kids will never do that. You guys have never done that. So what do you guys think about handwritten notes? I mean, do you think it has the same impact, and do you think it's as good of an idea for candidates to as I do? I'm a huge fan of it. I think it should be, and no one does it. I say it all the time, say it now. Whoever watches this, you'll hear it, and no one's going to do it.
Peter (Gen Y):I think it's just difficult to let's particularly people working remote, you know, you don't know, you don't wear a sender. If you can, if you can 100% definitively know where this manager or whoever works and you know that if I write him a note and I mail it to this it's going to get to them, then yeah, I think it's great, but I think it's people don't think of it a and B. It's difficult to know where someone physically is, especially now that you know with remote.
Ashley (Gen Z):Yeah, I say so much in this occasion. My one friend applied, got referred to this job, very well known company I'm not going to say the company because I'm scared, but so many applicants and even though, like he was referred, like I told him, you got to stand out. There's like so many people applying right now you got to send like a handwritten note and he was like I don't know where to send it to because it's all remote, I don't know who to send it to. So I mean, I feel like that would have even like buttered up the deal a little bit, especially since he was a referral.
Pete (Gen X):But it makes it hard.
Pete (Gen X):For a second. I thought you were going to say I don't know how to, I don't know what handwriting is, but I don't know exactly how big companies process mail now, but I do know that there's. I mean, you guys are describing as if there's some like big pile of mail just stacked up somewhere in the companies are like I don't know what to do with this, that they will get it to the right person if they actually work for that organization. So it's a. It's a low it's actually low effort. If you think about it right, Get a stack of cards by, by a packet, you know, at Walmart and order order from Amazon.
Pete (Gen X):Probably you can probably get 20 note cards generic note cards for like a couple bucks I'm sure they're very cheap and just get in the habit of doing it. As soon as you interview, as soon as if there's a job that you genuinely want to go after, you should go all in on it, right? That's sort of the problem that's been created with this one click apply scenario, where people apply to hundreds of jobs, each job receives hundreds of applicants and no one's really getting seen. I mean, it's just a mess right now. And so take advantage of an opportunity that's relatively low, effort, inexpensive and can make a huge difference in separating yourself from everyone else.
Peter (Gen Y):Yeah, if you've interviewed with them and you know who you're sending it to, that's a different story and I would say, yeah, I mean obviously always send a thank you note, even if it's just an email, but sending it that thank you note in a physical as a physical letter, like that's even, that's an extra step above it. So I agree with that. I think that's a really good thing.
Pete (Gen X):Yeah, and I'll say one more thing pick up the phone and call the company I want to get. Yeah, I have to mail something to Bob Smith. What address should I use? They may not give it. Maybe they'll just give you the corporate address with a mail stop. Who knows how that works, depending on the company. But make the phone call, make the effort, you'll separate yourself. Do we have any comments? We're not getting any comments yet today.
Ashley (Gen Z):Is this Everybody agrees they're like this but, I do have a question If you're let's say you're working with a recruiter, could you ask the recruiter like, hey, can you get me the address? Like I would love to send a handwritten note? Is that like acceptable to ask a recruiter?
Pete (Gen X):Yeah, if you're working with a recruiter. So let's just further explain what that means a little bit. There's we use the terms interchangeably because they are both recruiters, but corporate recruiter different function than the third party recruiter, staffing recruiter, if you will. But in either case, yes, right, a corporate recruiter should have that knowledge that their fingertips, the staffing recruiter, can reach out to their contact the end user, client, find out what address should be used. I'm trying to think of a scenario where someone would say no or not be helpful. I know the third party recruiter would be very motivated to help a candidate do that because if they've been in recruiting for any period of time at all, they know it's a valuable and unique thing to do. So, yeah, that's a great idea. Ashley ask, and there's just so many options you can.
Peter (Gen Y):Yeah, and that's a by the way, if a recruiter tells you not to do that, that's a red flag, Like that's. I've heard horror stories of people like, well, the recruiter didn't want me to have any contact, Like that's weird, Like if any good recruiter they are as motivated, if not more, for you to get the job than you should be.
Peter (Gen Y):So they're gonna want you to go above and beyond. They should actually probably any good recruiter, at least the ones that I know. They'll tell their candidates like make sure you write a thank you note, make sure you let express that you're interested, ask questions, do all that stuff. So, yeah, they should want you to go above and beyond.
Pete (Gen X):And if you want more to say, go to Zengigcom. We have plenty of options of all kinds of different emails, letters, all the above.
Peter (Gen Y):Yep, yeah, we can help you out.
Pete (Gen X):All right, we can move on. Not a lot of interest in this topic, I guess. All right, let's go. I know.
Ashley (Gen Z):I love our PSA for the day, all right. So our topic today is career specialization versus generalization. So are you a jack of all trades? Are you a master of one? So we're gonna start off by showing a TikTok video really quick and then we can discuss. Sound good, all right?
Pete (Gen X):Yeah, I don't know what you're gonna get with these?
Ashley (Gen Z):Let me add this guy to our stage, coach Jason. All right, fun guy.
Peter (Gen Y):All right, coach. What do you got for?
TikTok Video #1:me, should you be a specialist or a generalist? When starting your career, I would feel that in the end goal you wanna be a specialist. So at the start, be a generalist and do as many things as possible in the company. You know your own limit, but push yourself as much as possible to take on as many opportunities as possible. You need to figure out of all the mountains, which is the one that I really want to climb. The more experience you have with different things, the more you know whether this is the mountain for me. Oh, I've tried this mountain, I'm good at it, but actually it feels draining. I'll go to another mountain, go another mountain until you actually find that one. Some people are born to be special yeah, fortunate. But for the rest of us we are not fortunate. We need to try as many things as possible. Should you be a specialist?
Ashley (Gen Z):Oops all right, Thanks Jason, coach Jason.
Pete (Gen X):So I like that message. Actually he was. It sounded like he was saying yes, you should ultimately find something you're really good at and that you have strengths in, but try different things until you get there. I think that's great advice and that's something that we talk about a lot.
Peter (Gen Y):Yeah, definitely trying out different things and not pigeonholing yourself and saying, hey, I just wanna, I only wanna work in this department, I don't even learn anything outside of it. Like that's a bad approach and that's not gonna get you as far. Obviously, later on in your career, once you've experienced a bunch of different things, you can kind of move in a certain direction. I would actually argue, though, that once you get beyond, once you've mastered something, you're actually, as you climb up in a company, you're gonna wanna become a specialist again. You know a CEO of a company, they're a generalist. Sorry, a CEO of a company is a generalist. They have to know about all the different areas of the company. They can't just be specialized and knowing about one thing. They might have come up and say they were an accountant and they know really a lot about finance. But as you grow, you've gotta learn about manufacturing. You've gotta learn about IT At least enough to be competent and talk to people in those other departments.
Pete (Gen X):Well, that assumes you aspire to be in that role, though, right, not everyone does, and I would argue, most probably don't.
Peter (Gen Y):Yeah, that's true. I just think that, as any sort of leader, you shouldn't ever get to the point where you're like I'm a specialist, I don't need to know anymore. Like, always keep an open mind. I guess that's what I'm kind of getting at. It's never a bad thing to know about how other departments in a company work even if you're only focused in one thing.
Ashley (Gen Z):Do you think it's limiting when you're job searching to be a generalist or specialist?
Peter (Gen Y):Well, in today's job market, I think it can be limiting to be a. I actually think it can be limiting to be a generalist in some some things, because there are so many people there Like I want the best person at doing exactly that and, depending on the company size, I think that also matters. Large companies, they want specialists. A smaller company where you're going to put where a bunch of different hats, I think that it could be beneficial to be a generalist. But overall, if I'm looking at just if I look at LinkedIn, I look at job postings, most of them want a bunch of years of experience, particularly technical roles or individual contributor roles. They want a bunch of experience in this, a bunch of years of experience in this, and they're wanting people who are specialized in that. And, like Pete said earlier, I mean, if you've got a thousand applicants, I want the person who's the best specialized thing in this one area. So I think the market's better for specialists right now.
Pete (Gen X):We know that recruiters look at resumes and they don't want to have to stop and question what this person is all about, what they do. They want it to jump off the page. So the more specialization you have, the more clarity there is about what it is you do really well, the better you're going to be served in that situation in particular. But I think bigger companies there's opportunity to be more specialized, right.
Pete (Gen X):I have a particular client in mind years ago where they had a team of people involved in just managing email, from administration to assigning new logins, and it was so siloed, right. You could be a specialist in a very specific area active directory, for example, something I haven't thought about in a long time. But if you have to then go to a smaller company where you are the only person who manages all of the email functions and perhaps multiple things beyond that, it's not going to serve you as well. So I think the company size is I mean we can talk about individual departments too right where marketing specialization or even recruiting there's operations there. But company size is to me as much of a driver as anything else is whether that opportunity is valuable and even exists.
Ashley (Gen Z):And would you guys say that either one causes burnout. Which one would cause more burnout? Wearing too many hats or just sticking to the one thing constantly?
Peter (Gen Y):I think the generalist could. I guess a generalist can burn out a little bit more, in my at least, in my opinion if you're being asked to do a bunch of different things that you aren't necessarily great at you know. That's where I guess it kind of seems to me If you're a specialist and you're really good at this one thing, I mean, you're going to get burned out at the same rate as any other job, I think. But if you're being asked to do something and you're like I have no idea, I got to learn how to do this and then be the expert on doing this thing, or I got to learn how to do this and this and this and this and I'm juggling a bunch of things, it gives a lot more opportunities to be overloaded.
Ashley (Gen Z):I feel like being a specialist would cause more burnout because you're doing the same thing constantly. I feel like you're going to get like tired of it yeah. And at least with like a generalist wearing those so many hats, it's going to be a different taste of everything.
Pete (Gen X):It's such an individual thing, though. If you're a writer and you only want to write and you work for, let's say, a market in marketing, a copywriter may not want to have to worry about digital things like SEO and web pages. They may just want to worry about words on paper, and so, again, it's so individual. But is there a generational element to this? Right? I mean, we're not talking about that at all, yet I don't know that there is other than my generation, was told, as was yours, peter. I think this is shifting. You have to go to college to presumably become specialized in something. I don't think college is tied to that anymore. I think you have an opportunity to specialize in most things without a college degree, but what about the generational aspect of it? Is there?
Peter (Gen Y):one. I think millennial people I know the younger ones I mean where you're always told like go to college and you get a degree and your degree is to do a thing. I mean, if you look at like liberal arts degrees and degrees that are more generalist and designed to help you, you know, have you think critically and problem solve that type of thing, but aren't really like how to do a specific task, those are actually on the decline versus specialized degrees, like a degree in electrical engineering. You're like I'm going to be an electrical engineer and that's even, you could argue, could be a generalist thing because it can go in so many different directions. But those types of degrees are increasing and the people going to college. That's becoming more and more prevalent, I think, because people are viewing school as a launching point to a specific career, which I think is hard for a lot of young people. But that's beside the point.
Ashley (Gen Z):I feel like too, a lot of the times you have the opportunity to get a minor in college. So let's just say my one friend was a major in as like a history teacher, and then she wanted to minor in photography. That was like the second thing she wanted to learn and like kind of do as a side hustle in her career. So I guess having a minor in college also opens up the opportunity of not being a specialist in just one thing.
Peter (Gen Y):It gives you the opportunity to kind of test different things. I think.
Pete (Gen X):So this is a college question, but you think it came up in the Republican debate last night. I don't know if you guys watched it, but one of the one of the candidates made a comment about colleges and choice of majors, and I mean there's so many majors that exist in college that really prepare you to do nothing and, I would argue, most bachelors, associate's degrees. You're not qualified, that you're not specialized in anything. You don't have enough of an education. I mean, I think you could become more of a specialist by consuming a fraction of the amount of time of YouTube content and be much more specialized in any bachelor's degree. Or is that in my role?
Ashley (Gen Z):Well, no, because I guess I'm like the kind of the perfect person for this. As an example, my major is a Bachelor in Arts, graphic Design. It's competitive. There's not much I can do with it, so I feel like I don't know, it's limiting. It's limiting, especially. It's limiting to graphic design, especially since it's competitive. There's already so many graphic designers out there and now, with AI in the world, it kind of makes it pointless to get that degree in my opinion. So I feel like I've been able to learn much more in the role that I'm in right now in teaching myself and getting all these certifications, versus just going and getting that degree.
Peter (Gen Y):I don't. I view Going to school. I view it, I guess, a little bit differently, that I don't think it's necessarily Sure, all right, if I wanted to, if I want to learn to be a programmer, I can obviously teach myself. There's enough YouTube videos, enough codecamps, enough, whatever that I can do it. I don't know that many people that have that the discipline to just do that and not get sidetracked and just in that amount of time.
Peter (Gen Y):I think that the benefit of school that is, is meeting new people. It's this, is the social aspect of it. It's the teachers thinking, teaching you how to think about a problem, rather than teaching you how to solve. Like you know, they're not looking at a problem and saying do you need to do X, y and Z this way? I mean, there is obviously classes that are like that, but I'm talking about more generalist classes, degrees that don't directly relate to a specific career. It's more about how to solve a problem, how to think critically, how to, how to go about doing things, rather than, like telling you how to, how to solve those problems. I say this as somebody who got a degree in English, so I'm not clearly not English teacher.
Pete (Gen X):No, but presumably your English is better than most, right, I mean that's.
Peter (Gen Y):I like to think I'm a decent writer, so at least I have that going for well with college, with bachelor's degrees.
Pete (Gen X):This is off topic, but I've noticed this with my older two kids, who've, you know, once senior in college, once already graduated. They do so many group projects. Was that a thing for you, ash? I don't recall a single group project through four years of a bachelor's degree and now beginning in middle school, then high school. I have two in high school, so they're always doing group projects which I find bizarre, like there's no learning, no one's learned anything.
Ashley (Gen Z):I hated it, especially because if the teacher, the professor, had to pick who was going to be in your group, sometimes you'd be stuck with all the workload because you didn't want to get a bad grade. And if everyone does bad, then everyone's going to get the same grade. So like one person has to carry on the team if there's going to be other students that are just not going to put in that effort. They want a good grade. So I think it's kind of unfair in a way.
Peter (Gen Y):If you're not good at the class, it's good to be in a group because you can hopefully someone's going to carry you. But if you're like in the top 25% of the class, you're probably going to get stuck with somebody who's like not as good as you and you're like, well, great, am I going to let this guy do the PowerPoint or am I going to do it? So it actually turns out.
Ashley (Gen Z):I can't tell you how many times I've been in that situation. I had to be like, well, it sucks, because I'm putting in all this work and this person is going to get this grade because of me.
Pete (Gen X):But I think my experience is pretty normal. I went to a big state school, FSU, that there was no. There was no group projects as bad as when we're getting our bachelor's degrees, and now it seems like most of the classes do that. So that seems to be a generational shift. What comes out on the other side of that?
Peter (Gen Y):Is it to teach people to?
Pete (Gen X):work together and not to make your emotions more independent. It just makes you guys less independent.
Peter (Gen Y):Well, you could argue that our generations are better at working together, which is an essential human trait.
Ashley (Gen Z):But it's not working together when you're taking on the whole workload and the other person isn't doing it.
Peter (Gen Y):That's just making you a good leader, because you're like I can't count on this person. I got a delegated up to this. The few projects now I didn't have to do as many as it sounds like Ashley did, but the few that I was on I ended up by default becoming the project manager of it. I was like all right, you're responsible for this, You're responsible for this, Get this to me and I'll put it all together, type of thing. I guess I got that the leadership skill from that. So it wasn't the direct result of what I actually was doing as the project, but I got that fringe benefit of learning.
Pete (Gen X):Okay, so I'm going to take another step down this political path? That probably shouldn't. So I think we can agree that Ashley, your generation, so Gen Z, has more socialist leanings than prior generations. That's not a disagreeable statement, right, Do you think it is in some ways tied to that sort of evolution through school where group projects teach you to Collectivist thinking? Yeah, you do the work. We know that in any group there's going to be someone who carries the load. There's others who are going to be slackers. Rarely is it equal, but that sort of sets a tone for that coming out. I deserve the same grade even though I did a fraction of the work. Or am I just trying to conflate that something that is in no way related?
Peter (Gen Y):I think that that's a good thought. Everybody gets the same grade, even though this I don't think that is not always the case. I don't want it to sound like every time there's always an awful person, but there's definitely levels. Some people are more confident bossing other people around and being like you do this, you do this. Some people like to just be told what's my project? I got someone tell me I'm going to do it, and they work better that way. I can see that that collectivist thinking comes from that. I don't know how prevalent they are. I guess I've been out of school too long to see. Is there one single group project in an entire semester? I wouldn't say that's too many. Is every project a group project?
Pete (Gen X):I'm telling you, it wouldn't.
Ashley (Gen Z):My political science class, every project was a group project.
Peter (Gen Y):I'm going to do a group project in a class like that. When I took that class it was like read this book, write papers on it.
Ashley (Gen Z):Connect tables as soon as we get there every day, you'd be like connect your tables. This is going to be your collective semester.
Pete (Gen X):I'm telling you my college senior. Right now, as far as I can tell, pretty much everything he's doing is a group project.
Ashley (Gen Z):It's bizarre.
Pete (Gen X):I don't get it.
Ashley (Gen Z):I do think it's unfair because, yeah, everyone gets the same grade and people are putting in different levels of effort Because they're students. It doesn't matter if I'm trying to be a leader and be like okay, you need to do this, they'll laugh in your face. You can't go tattle on the professor. The professor won't care. They'll be like figure it out, it's all messed up in my opinion. I can say how to.
Pete (Gen X):We're not going to fix the educational system today.
Peter (Gen Y):We think that it will get us back on track. Do you think that that contributes to people wanting to be more generalized and doing different things, or does that push people in a special way, yeah, I do this. My job is PowerPoint, page number two, and that is all I'm going to care about.
Pete (Gen X):Yeah, you're in it out, right, yeah. If you're only doing a fraction of the work and you only get a fraction of the exposure to the end result, I don't get it. I guess the collaboration piece is okay, wonderful, that's important. Maybe do it once. But the rest of it should be about survival and learning and growth and all the things that you need You're only going to benefit from if you do it on your own.
Peter (Gen Y):I think it depends on the class too, like she said her. Political science, unless maybe you're learning something about government. I guess it could work. I had to do a group project in a project management class, so it kind of made sense.
Ashley (Gen Z):I'll say the one class I also failed that I think should have been individual and not group projects was probability statistics, because I was like biostats, because at the moment I wanted to be in the health science. Yeah, he made us work in groups and I feel like I wasn't learning anything because I'm just so focused on trying to copy this person's answers versus trying to figure it out the hard way and learning it myself.
Ashley (Gen Z):So I feel like in a class like that, actually we didn't know you failed a class, so that we my one class, the one class I failed because I feel like math should never be done in like a group project. It should always be done like you need to do it on your own, so you could figure it out on your own, not done with like a group, because then you're going to end up copying everyone else and then when it's test day, you're not going to know what you're doing.
Peter (Gen Y):Yeah, I think the unless it's a huge scope, which maybe it's because classes are, professors are just. It's easier to put a bunch of people in a group and say, alright, here's a project, run, run a bunch of numbers on a hospital you said health stats that grow a bunch of numbers on a hospital and put a big presentation together. That's easier than having individualized lessons throughout the day. But we can. You know that's a whole other path we could go down.
Ashley (Gen Z):Yeah, alright, back to specialists and generalists.
Pete (Gen X):Back to it, alright. So Stacy waited on this and, by the way, I just realized why we don't have that many comments. We switched over to Zingig and we only have 2000 followers on Zingig, compared to the 30 something thousand followers we have on four corner resources. So if you're watching us now, tell your friends please make sure you follow our Zingig page. Maybe we'll revert back to four corner for a while, until Zingig, you're just talking out to the ether here.
Pete (Gen X):Well, I mean, yeah, we're listen, we're doing our own group project today. I guess we'll figure it out. So but, stacy, thanks for weighing in with your comment on being a specialist. And yeah, the goal is to develop a true like and passion for what you're doing. I mean, that's utopia. I think and that's why I really liked that comment from the TikTok guy was keep trying things right. I mean, find something that you're enthusiastic about and you're willing to do, whether you're getting paid for it or not. I mean, that's best case scenario. Easier said than done, of course, but that's what everyone should should strive towards.
Peter (Gen Y):Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Pete (Gen X):Alright, you want to do the other video? Yes, so you think that's what you're doing.
Ashley (Gen Z):I don't know if you're not flying in today.
Peter (Gen Y):Hold on, let's see what this cuckoo pants has to say.
TikTok Video #2:I don't know if she's gonna be a cuckoo pants, but let's see, they're acid wash. Generalist versus specialist which is better? My answer might surprise you. So a lot of people think that being a generalist is better, because if you offer more stuff, then you can serve more clients and you can make more money. Right? Imagine you have a Ferrari and a part of it breaks. You wouldn't just take it to your common mechanic down the street, would you? No, you love that Ferrari. You spent a whole lot of money on it. You want to take good care of it and make sure that only the best mechanics, who know everything there is to know about Ferraris, are working on it. And that is because it is special. It's the same thing with copywriting Do you want to be general or do you want to be special? So I will always advocate for going deep.
Peter (Gen Y):You can argue then in her analogy that the demand is not as much for a specialist, because how?
TikTok Video #2:many people got.
Peter (Gen Y):Lamborghinis that need working on versus how many people need to go to that common mechanic.
Pete (Gen X):So that I mean. Well, I mean we're talking about the law of supply and demand. I think is really what it comes down to, and the bigger the supply, the less premium you can attach to it, and that makes perfect sense. So I mean, even look at just look at physicians, right, we could probably go down the line in any particular industry. You know, the neurosurgeon makes a lot more money than the general practitioner, because a neurosurgeon is does something the general practitioner can't do, but for the most part, the general practitioner, the neurosurgeon, could do all the things the general practitioner can do, right, not maybe as well, but there are a lot more people who can be a GP than there are neurosurgeon. I think that I think the need for a neurosurgeon, is not it?
Peter (Gen Y):Not everybody needs a neurosurgeon and most things can be solved by the GP. So yeah, I think that's high risk, high reward. I guess is kind of what you look at with specialists.
Pete (Gen X):Well, I think. I think that pulls us back into the college conversation a little bit, because we have so many people going to get degrees. You know, ashley, let's just use your graphic design as a good example. So, when you come out of college, is we've placed a lot of graphic designers over the years from a staffing perspective, and I'm trying to recall, I mean, maybe there's a bachelor's requirement, maybe, but nobody really cares, right? No one cares about your GPA, no one cares what you went, where you went to school. They want to see your portfolio, they want to see what you can do for them, and that is going to come down to your skill and the tools that you use and your knowledge, your creativity, are you talented and do you have breadth and depth of skill.
Pete (Gen X):So nobody's looking at matching up all of those graphic design degrees, though, to the demand that's out there, right, like who's watching that? And it is something that we think about a lot at ZinGig and, of course, we know at the risk of college is important and necessary for so many people and so many things. However, it shouldn't be the default answer, right, and you know, I don't know. What do you think about that? Actually, with graphic design. I mean, since you've recently experienced this, do you think that degree was valuable to you?
Ashley (Gen Z):Um, I feel like no. I feel like no because most of everything that I was doing was on my own time Like all the projects that I was doing in school, I feel like weren't good enough to show in a portfolio. They basically were teaching me stuff that you know I could have learned just looking through YouTube. My one graphic design professor had us looking at YouTube videos instead of her teaching us, so she would just go around and just offer extra help. We learned from YouTube, so I feel like I could have just done that all on my own, but I guess I just wouldn't have had her to ask any questions. So I feel like I want to say yes and no, thank you. Yes, as in it's a waste because I again could have taught myself, but no because I feel like it's also helped me get to where I am today, because it also helped me understand a little bit about the marketing world.
Pete (Gen X):Would you have taught yourself?
Peter (Gen Y):Yeah that's.
Ashley (Gen Z):I feel like if I was truly passionate about it and I knew that teaching myself could get me a job. Yes, but I feel like nowadays people just love to see a college degree on your resume. It's kind of just like okay, if I teach myself, they're going to be like oh, you didn't get a college degree, because sometimes they require bachelors and something.
Pete (Gen X):Do you think that? I mean, peter, do you think that? Because I would have said the opposite. So when I was your age, I think college degrees were more meaningful and necessary than they are now. Right? So you couldn't. There was no YouTube. You couldn't teach yourself to be a fill in the blank, right?
Pete (Gen X):I interviewed a WordPress developer for one of our WordPress career guide to put a little clip on there about how she became a WordPress developer and she taught herself. She taught herself. She was already a background in technology, but she took it upon herself. She didn't go to school for that structured informal training. And also, actually, when I was your age, I worked for a Fortune 500 company where they had a policy that you could not get promoted to a director level unless you had a master's degree. Now, how arbitrary is that right? It doesn't matter if you're the best performer and the best manager and the best whatever. Some arbitrary rule is going to put a ceiling on top. I think that's absurd. I didn't stand that company. I can't support that, right, peter? What do you think about that? You think it's more important?
Peter (Gen Y):I agree with that, but I think that, Well, two things. Yes, a bachelor's degree, because so many people have them. They don't mean nearly as much as what they used to. Now it's like almost a master's is what a bachelor's used to be. To set yourself aside, I think a lot of times it's just an HR or whatever manager just checking a box, effectively Like do you have this Because companies said that you have to have this? It doesn't actually mean it. How many times have we talked to particularly all these software developers, Because that's the one I always think of and they're like oh well, the software developer, they have to have a degree. Why? Why does it matter if they know the language that you need them to know and they're really good at it?
Pete (Gen X):So I'll give you an answer CIO gave me years ago when I asked that very question. We were recruiting a lot of NET developers at the time for this team and of course there was a lot who didn't have a bachelor's degree and this company required it. Now they were in the education space. So you go OK. Well, that sort of goes hand in hand, but we would have to look past some of the best developers out there simply for that reason.
Pete (Gen X):So when I asked the CIO, he said because it gives me a baseline. It gives me a baseline that they could meet a commitment, they could make a commitment, keep it, it could accomplish certain things. And so when I don't know anything else about this person other than what I'm going to learn in the interview from the resume, maybe from references, I know that they were able to complete that and that's meaningful to me and that's all that. Comments always stuck with me because I went OK, because I would ask the same question like man we're turned out all these great people. Well, I had to respect that and I get where he's coming from.
Peter (Gen Y):And I think that's the same thing as like getting certifications you effectively look at it as it's just another certification, it's something on their resume that says they can do at least this. Like you said, baseline. I can agree with that. But in today's thing where particularly I'll continue with software developer if you've got examples of your code out there, with things like GitHub and even with that, actually with a graphic designer, you're going to have a portfolio, you've got examples. So maybe that doesn't, it doesn't mean as much anymore. I don't think we're going to change anything. I think it's going to continue on, but I think that a bachelor's degree should not be the end all be all of somebody in the job market.
Ashley (Gen Z):Yes 100%. I think you should be a jack of all trades.
Peter (Gen Y):I think that you should probably err on that side. If you want to get specialized in something, you just have to be a keep in mind like. If you're going to specialize in this one specific technology, you can yes, you can command a higher pay, but it's also going to make you a little bit more susceptible to market changes. There's an example. I remember talking to this developer and he specialized in I believe it was called cold fusion, which was a language or a framework from that's no longer used, and he was having a hard time finding it because he specialized really heavily in that and he didn't really branch out at all. He was. Companies weren't using it as much anymore, so he was not in nearly high demand as he used to be. So I kind of think that that is an example of like. If you're going to do that, you should not shut your mind off from other avenues.
Pete (Gen X):So that's such an important element of this and I'm really glad you brought it up because we kind of got away from the graphic design discussion Actually mentioned AI. Ai is changing all the rules. So even if you were the best graphic designer using the tools that were available to you a year ago, there's a whole different set of options right now that can create faster, better maybe not better right, but the same quality, much faster, with less effort, with less knowledge needed in order to do it. We see that with programming right now. So that's a scary thing about specialization if you're not open to change and adapting, because the world's changing whether you want it to or not.
Peter (Gen Y):In nature, it's the generalists who are the ones who survive. It's great to find a niche, but if any little thing changes in the environment, like those are the ones who are the first to be most susceptible.
Ashley (Gen Z):Humans are generalists, so that's a good way to put it, Peter.
Pete (Gen X):Well, and from a generational standpoint.
Pete (Gen X):I think, my generation is going to. It's going to be tough, because if you're not inclined to take advantage of these new technologies and I think it's probably 50-50, right, some people I mean, if you're my age, you could think of yourself as young, with lots to learn still and things to do, or you could think of yourself as old. Right, it's definitely a mindset. A mindset, yeah. But those who have closed off and said I'm never going to have to worry about that, I'm towards the end of my career Well, if you have five years to go, let alone 10, it's going to look entirely different. I mean, we already know in some respects graphic design being one we're writing, we talked about that too that entire industry or profession has already changed and the rules are being rewritten constantly at a very rapid pace. So if the younger you are mentally and being willing to adapt, the better off you're going to be, and if you're not, it's going to be really hard for you to survive in the professional space. Yeah, absolutely.
Ashley (Gen Z):Yeah, 100%.
Pete (Gen X):What else are we going to cover before I?
Ashley (Gen Z):mean, I think that was it. I think we all made our points pretty clear.
Pete (Gen X):I miss our, I miss our. I'm not going to call it a fan, no, our audience. They're probably not necessarily fans, but we're our fans.
Ashley (Gen Z):Engaging with our audience.
Pete (Gen X):Our audience. Thank you, that is our crew Crew. Nice Pete, we need, you know we need, we need them back. So we'll move on.
Peter (Gen Y):We'll answer your questions after the fact here. If you're listening to this, send us. Send us your questions so we can address them on our next week's.
Ashley (Gen Z):Yeah, should we do another Q and A? Yeah, we've got.
Peter (Gen Y):I know we've got some building up where you haven't addressed yet because they didn't really fit with the theme.
Pete (Gen X):So, all right, we can do that. We can do that, all right. Well then, I guess it's goodbye for now.
Ashley (Gen Z):Goodbye for now.
Peter (Gen Y):See you, see you guys, we'll see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday.
Ashley (Gen Z):All right, all right.